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Thread: Neem Karoli Baba

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post
    Religion is a word. Don't confuse religion with religion. Nor follower with follower.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiorionis View Post
    Personally wouldn't mind an elaboration of this concept.
    Most people love to watch film. The majority of people watch meaningless Hollywood blockbusters. Other people like small independent art films that have a lot of depth.

    Some people can see good things in both kinds of film.

    Film can be many things. We cannot say that film is bad. Or that film is evil. Or that film does this or that to people. Depends on the film. Depends on the viewer.

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwellings View Post
    Tha maharaj clown was claiminng himself to be the savior. Fucking clown.
    http://www.prem-rawat-bio.org/teachings/saviour.html
    Maybe you are the clown since you can't tell one person apart from the next. This is not the same guy.

    Maharaji is a title that thousands of people have been called... so don't confuse one Maharaji with another.

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post
    Exactly. That was my point. That is how you spoke about this and that guru. So I turned the tables and did the same to you... and now you thought it was irrelevant. Exactly. It is irrelevant.
    Invalid straw-man argument. When I wrote about this guru and his business, I mentioned (in different words) that his theory ("no physical guru") contradicts the applied format of his teachings (physical ashrams, devotees, bowing to him and touching his feet, etc). Plus, his teachings are a collection of platitudes. Good for Facebook memes or for spiritually immature new-agers at best. Someone with good discerning faculties would see through this kind of charade quite quickly. But yes, I agree, it depends on the consumer. Some people can't even properly tune their instruments and yet they make their creations public as "music" or "art" - and still manage to have an audience of tone-deaf listeners. Way it goes. I take no real issue with it, I'm just observing. Plus, it makes for some "interesting" exchanges

    Back on topic, in this case, it would be more like:

    "It is not necessary to meet your guru on the physical plane. The guru is not external."
    - coming from someone who has many PHYSICAL ashrams and devotees bowing at his PHYSICAL feet.

    He is contradicting himself right at the core of his "teachings"
    - revealing the hypocrisy of making a business model out of something he claims does not require physical expression. What I did was point out his own internal "two-party" dichotomy, and there is NO third party (I am not the third party, I am the observer in this case. And do not confuse observer with observer ).

    Apparently oblivious to this hypocrisy, you have created an imaginary third party straw-man and used it to pseudo-counter some very valid points. It's not like he's preaching sobriety by day and downing pints by night. If the teachings were, say, about sobriety without self-contradicting themselves (such as getting drunk at the ashram during a sobriety sermon), I would have most likely not even bothered with this thread (as per the Alan Watts example). But this one is different. If you can't see how and why this one is different, I can't help with that. To each their own.

    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post
    That's what I meant.
    Then perhaps it's a good idea to generally say what we mean in the first place, to avoid such misunderstandings. Because when pointing to the part I placed in italics, you said the exact opposite.

    This being said, I am certainly not disregarding the profitability of the business model. Supply and demand.

    Depends on the film. Depends on the viewer.
    Obviously, there are many people/viewers around who desire to consume ("embrace") such platitudes/films and are oblivious to the internal dichotomies and fallacies embedded in the teachings themselves, with no regard to what the guru does in his own spare time.

    I'm down with that.

    Andro Baba coming soon to an ashram near you

    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    Last edited by Andro; 04-22-2017 at 09:13 PM.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    Andro Baba coming soon to an ashram near you

    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    Let me know as soon as the pre-order specials begin.
    Art is Nature in the flask; Nature is a vial thing.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    He is contradicting himself...
    Everything is a contradiction and a paradox. It's about walking the liminal ridge and holding the paradox. I have read a lot on this particular guru, and it seems to me his teachings are not generally made through words... but in some sort of presence/vibe. I guess one has to have met him to "judge" for certain.

    In any case I think this guru in particular is very interesting, and has no more a business than anyone else. Certainly does not give an impression of needing money nor followers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    ...revealing the hypocrisy of making a business model out of something he claims does not require physical expression...
    His most common phrase was apparently: go away

    If I was the Messiah I would have lots of followers and Temples even if I asked people not to follow or build them. The sheep does not define the wolf.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    Then perhaps it's a good idea to generally say what we mean in the first place, to avoid such misunderstandings.
    Sorry, was driving at the time and looking back I can see that I did not write clearly at all. LOL.

    As for art... if a human being creates something it is art. To be alive is an art form. And a life lived is an artwork.

    ------------------------------------------------------------

    I am not interested in defending Neem Karoli Baba and I don't care if he owned a million temples (most built after his death anyway). All I care about is what I personally got from some of his teachings (which can be read in many different ways). For me the message is more important than the messenger. In a few weeks I will focus my interest on something else. I am simply in a Hare Krishna vibe at the moment, because I have received a lot of help from chanting Hare Krishna. It has been truly amazing.

    Some people have a real issues with change. Some people confuse knowing/certainty with jealousy. Some people think they are more advanced than they really are. Some people are more advanced than they realise. And in most cases what a person dislikes is a true mirror of themselves. You know like the guy who is homophobic, but is actually a homosexual deep inside.

    Any spiritual path or belief is a journey that can only be understood by the pilgrim him/herself. All I do is post snippets of small things I stumble upon along the way. Bread crumbs for others, just as others have left bread crumbs for me. I am not a guru, nor do I have any interest in being one. I don't need fame nor fortune. I am not impressed by power. For me I am trying to achieve a certain level of peace and knowing, which is the real purpose of my life. It sounds cheesy and Hallmarky perhaps, but compassion and love for all beings is the greatest thing one can achieve... even if this is only achieved in brief moments. But if one is walking such a path those moments happen more and more. It is not about changing the world. It is about changing the self. In my case myself.

    Manipulative tendencies are very obvious to me, and when I do them myself I always try to say I do. It is better to speak straight than to talk in a round about way (like in the counter subtext assault example I did above)... because false speech is not good for the heart in any situation.

    Which brings me to one story of Baba when a student had a problem to love everyone, because some people he actually hated. But it is fine to dislike someone if you inform them of this, as long as you have compassion/love for them.

    Never hide your true feelings.

    My feeling is that you have some issue with me in some way (in general, not connected with this thread). Not sure why, but please inform me. And if you do not, I won't believe you. LOL. But if you truly do not, then perhaps this feeling is simply a manifestation of change, which is the only thing constant in this realm. IMHO.

    Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I'll meet you there. - Rumi
    Last edited by Awani; 04-22-2017 at 09:50 PM. Reason: clarify + add quote
    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  6. #26
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    Some interesting complementary reading from a satirical blog:

    The Age Of The Guru Is Over


    A Prison Without Bars

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post
    Never hide your true feelings.
    Is this something you also apply in practice? I'm asking because you quote 'The Art of War' sometimes, and those teachings also deal with concealing what one really thinks/feels/plans/etc...

    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post
    My feeling is that you have some issue with me in some way (in general, not connected with this thread). Not sure why, but please inform me.
    I don't have any personal issues with you that I don't also have with myself, albeit in somewhat different ways. Issues that expand all the way to how (and why) realities are generated and why they 'function' in the way they do. I'm talking about the layers of the created onion-verse, not of the omnipresent Center, where not only you and I, but ALL is in perfect agreement and harmony with itself.

    On a more personal note, what you need to know in this regard is that you will never encounter from me things like betrayal, backstabbing, ill-wishing and the likes of such... If you're happy/at peace, I am happy/at peace with you. And if you or your loved ones ever suffer from anything, I will offer my unconditional assistance and I will do everything in my power to help (if asked). There's nothing more to know or say on this topic from my end.

    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post
    And if you do not, I won't believe you. LOL.
    Well, that pretty much invalidates everything I wrote above

    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post
    But if you truly do not, then perhaps this feeling is simply a manifestation of change, which is the only thing constant in this realm. IMHO.
    Manifestation of change in whom? You? Me? Both?
    Last edited by Andro; 04-22-2017 at 10:05 PM.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    Is this something you also apply in practice? I'm asking because you quote 'The Art of War' sometimes, and those teaching also deal with concealing what one really thinks/feels/plans/etc...
    I do, but only in business. Business is war. But I more and more do it in the spirit of "play". I really don't care much. In the whole "The Art of War" there is only one statement that I really like which is: if you are strong, pretend you are weak... if you are weak, pretend you are strong. This is essential when dealing with governments, rat race, business and society at large. It does not relate to the spiritual path at all. I have to walk the liminal ridge because I am not a monk... I am still a cog in the machine of society, but I don't take it serious at all. I used to.

    However in general I have hid my feelings throughout my life... but in the last 10 years this has been a major change in my behaviour. Usually one hides feelings out of fear of becoming hurt.

    But these days I am untouchable in that aspect... almost. It hurt when my baby died, but what can you do. Maybe next time it will hurt less.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    I don't have any personal issues with you that I don't also have with myself, albeit in somewhat different ways. Issues that expand all the way to how (and why) realities are generated and why they 'function' in the way they do. I'm talking about the layers of the created onion-verse, not of the omnipresent Center, where not only you and I, but ALL is in perfect agreement and harmony with itself.

    On a more personal note, what you need to know in this regard is that you will never encounter from me things like betrayal, backstabbing, ill-wishing and the likes of such... If you're happy/at peace, I am happy /at peace with you. And if you or your loved ones ever suffer from anything, I will offer my unconditional assistance and I will do everything in my power help (if asked). There's nothing more to know or say on this topic from my end.
    Now we are talking properly.

    Also "you will never encounter from me things like betrayal, backstabbing, ill-wishing and the likes of such..." goes for me as well. And looking back at my life I might have done a few of those things unintentionally. I mean those words are subjective. Sometimes a person can do something out of kindness, but the other person views it as backstabbing. So all I can say is that I will not do those things with intention or conscious knowing... and if I did anyway I need to be informed, because I was totally unaware. Not speaking about you and me per se, but simply in general terms.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    Well, that pretty much invalidates everything I wrote above...
    Fine... I believe you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    Manifestation of change in whom? You? Me? Both?
    Everything.

    Last edited by Awani; 12-20-2017 at 05:36 PM. Reason: add
    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by dev View Post

    Religion is a word. Don't confuse religion with religion. Nor follower with follower.

    WTF!? Of course religion is a word.

    I am not the confused one. Waste not your time

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by z0 K View Post
    Waste not your time...
    I have wasted 40 years on this stuff. So you are late with your warning.

    Religion is subjective. Your view of it is different than mine. Spiritual Path is another term that has less triggers... but I see - these days - little difference with the two.

    However "organised religion" is a different matter... but the organised part of a religion can easily be ignored... focus on the non-organised bits.

    Hare Allah. Krishna Buddha. Amen.

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

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