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Thread: The chest of the mysteries

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    If that was true then it would pointless to even bother to write about it in the first place. Better just not write anything.
    It is not pointless since hidden within the text are clues to recover the keys...but they are never plainly given, not one of them and it is better to know and accept this.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illen A. Cluf View Post
    But at the same time, many of the sages wrote that if you read, and re-read their texts, the truth will become known to you. They used a lot of symbolism and allegory. Once you break that, it becomes easier and easier to understand what they actually meant.

    They also inserted a lot of nonsense and deliberately added operations that had nothing to do with the process of alchemy. But some of them taught how to detect those deceptions and diversions. Others would also reveal some of the decknamen that they used. Eventually, you can begin to read between the lines and see some consistency.
    That is true they will often say one thing and then retract it a few lines down. Others will tell you take this, add it to that, do this, do that and what follows is complete gibberish. When I first started reading Alchemy text I thought these people were completely off their heads.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luxus View Post
    That is true they will often say one thing and then retract it a few lines down. Others will tell you take this, add it to that, do this, do that and what follows is complete gibberish. When I first started reading Alchemy text I thought these people were completely off their heads.
    Actually, some of these sages were absolute geniuses in how they could reveal something that only the most studious, dedicated and sincere student could uncover. Their intellect often seems to exceed ours today, especially with regards to subtle communication.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illen A. Cluf View Post
    Actually, some of these sages were absolute geniuses in how they could reveal something that only the most studious, dedicated and sincere student could uncover. Their intellect often seems to exceed ours today, especially with regards to subtle communication.
    I have high doubts about that you can get their clues with enough dedication. E.g., forgive me God for writing this, but after learning from other sources that salamander is asbestos, I swear I would never get it from any alchemical book with their subtle allegories. And even if I'd get it, some other book would make sure that I discard such assumption.
    Last edited by Warmheart; 08-18-2017 at 10:12 PM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luxus View Post
    It is not pointless since hidden within the text are clues to recover the keys...but they are never plainly given, not one of them and it is better to know and accept this.
    It would be pointless because no one could unravel such "clues" since you can always pull the excuse that the alchemists never mean what they say. Like I said, such arguments as concealing methods apply to when it comes time to discuss the substances employed to make the Stone, and for obvious reasons (otherwise anyone could make it, something the alchemists were not disposed to let happen), but hardly to things like the "coction", where the prepared "matter" is only put through a controlled regimen of heat and also "fed" with its "water" as needed (you can read plenty of quite clear descriptions of this in writers like Ibn Umail or John Dastin, for example, but you will be stumped to follow their directions if you don't know how and out of what they prepared the "water" and the "earth" that they are "cooking" into the Stone.) There is no point in trying to hide this, as many alchemists realized, since if no one teaches openly how to compose that "matter" most people will never get to the "coction" stage in the first place. The stumbling block of alchemy, therefore, is not this last part, but its beginning.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warmheart View Post
    I have high doubts about that you can get their clues with enough dedication. E.g., forgive me God for writing this, but after learning from other sources that salamander is asbestos, I swear I would never get it from any alchemical book with their subtle allegories. And even if I'd get it, some other book would make sure that I discard such assumption.
    I doubt very much that salamander means asbestos (that becomes a very literal interpretation). Rather, it relates to the fixed principle, after the composition can withstand the fire - the 'subtle' (spirit) is alchemically blended with the fixed in such a way during the operations that the entire composition becomes one and is able to withstand the fire. The key is to unravel their allegories and decknamen in such a way that you begin to see consistency, not only within the treatises, but between other respected treatises as well.

    How does one determine which are the most respected treatises or authors? Simple. Begin with some well-known treatises, and see which sages those treatises refer to. Then check out those sages and see which ones they refer to. Each author, whether authentic or not, tries to lend respectability and credence to their work by referencing respected authors. Eventually you will end of with a list of authors who are often mentioned in many different treatises. Those are the authors that you should focus on. I personally believe that the further back they go, the more authentic to old alchemical tradition they are likely to be.
    Last edited by Illen A. Cluf; 08-18-2017 at 10:59 PM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illen A. Cluf View Post
    I doubt very much that salamander means asbestos. Rather, it relates to the fixed principle. The key is to unravel their allegories and decknamen in such a way that you begin to see consistency, not only within the treatises, but between other respected treatises as well.
    That's exactly what I wrote about. Given the true meaning behind some symbols, you wouldn't be sure if they are true and most likely would discard them. The name of the matter doesn't mean much by itself - you also need to know the operation. And, of course, Salamander isn't Magnet of Philosophers, it isn't Philosophers' Mercury, etc. Those are actually different things. The One thing which matters is Anima Mundi and Man as Microcosm.

    Even by the one name, e.g. Philosophers Mercury, a lot of entirely different things were understood - depending on the author and on context...

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoas23 View Post
    The allegory of the chest with 3 locks works... as long as you remember that it's an allegory (i.e, similar to the case of those alchemist who describe the whole of the work in 12 steps and others describe it in 7 steps... and quite often they are not really saying something different, just "cutting the same cake" in a different way as to analyze it).
    YES!! Very well put.

    "An Open Entrance To The Closed Palace Of the King" by Philalethes, 1668

    Know then that our regimen throughout consists in coction and digestion, but that it implies a good many other processes, which those jealous sages have made to appear different by describing them under different names. Therefore you must know once and for all that distillation, cohobation, sublimation, calcination, reverberation, waxing, etc., are for us from the beginning to the end one and the same operation, which is to dissolve & coagulate, which is the same as wetting & drying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Illen A. Cluf View Post
    Actually, some of these sages were absolute geniuses in how they could reveal something that only the most studious, dedicated and sincere student could uncover. Their intellect often seems to exceed ours today, especially with regards to subtle communication.
    This, imo, is what it all boils down to. Fulcanelli was great with the double (and sometimes triple) speech, whereas others wrote slightly more openly.

    "The Dwellings Of The Philosophers" by Fulcanelli, 1929

    Know thyself!

    We have already encountered, in some ancient manuscripts, the same maxim thus paraphrased: "You who want to know the stone, know thyself well and you shall know it". Such is the statement of the law of analogy which gives in effect the key to the mystery. Now that which precisely characterizes our figure is that column responsible for the emblematic serpent’s support is reversed in relation to the inscription’s direction. An intentional, deliberate, and premeditated arrangement giving to the whole the appearance of a key as well as of the graphic sign with which the Ancients used to record their mercury. Key and pillar of the Work are moreover epithets applied to mercury, because it is the mercury that the elements assembled in appropriate proportions and natural quality; from it everything proceeds because it alone has the power to dissolve, mortify and destroy the bodies, to dissociate them, to separate their pure parts, and to join them with spirits and this to generate new metallic beings different from their parents. The authors are therefore right to assert that everything that the sages search for can be found in mercury per se, and this should indicate the alchemist to direct his efforts to the acquisition of this indispensable body.

    However in order to succeed we advise him to act methodically and to study in a simple, and rational fashion, the manner in which nature operates in living beings in order to transform the absorbed food, rid it of useless substances through the digestion process, into black blood, and then into red blood, the generator of organic tissues and vital energy. Nosce te ipsum. The alchemist will thus recognize that the mineral producers of mercury, which are also the authors of its feeding, growth and life, must first be chosen with discernment and worked with care. For, although theoretically everything can be used for this composition, nevertheless some are too far removed from the active metallic nature to be truly useful to us, either because of their impurities or because their maturation was arrested or pushed beyond the required term. Rocks, stones, and metalloids belong to the first category; gold and silver enter the second one. The agent we need lacks vigor in the metalloids and its debility cannot help us in any way; in gold and silver, on the other hand, we would search in vain: nature has separated it from the perfect bodies during their appearance on the physical plane.

    Quote Originally Posted by Warmheart View Post
    I have high doubts about that you can get their clues with enough dedication. E.g., forgive me God for writing this, but after learning from other sources that salamander is asbestos, I swear I would never get it from any alchemical book with their subtle allegories.
    Because our Salamander is not asbestos...BUT...it is indeed similar to asbestos.

    Learning how to read the Texts is the key most everybody lacks. You may want to immediately reconsider your sources if they are telling you outright lies like this. The Texts (all of them, in parallel) are hands down the best source of information out there, and most of them are freely available online!

    It boils down to how much this means to each Seeker and how much time they are willing to put forth cracking the code, understanding the Texts, and comprehending what was written by the Sages. The only way to really know is to begin the Work yourself. Unless you have someone showing you things in their flask that directly correlate with what the Authorities said, there really is not any kind of shortcut that exists with Alchemy.


    "Spagyric Medicine" by Rhumelius, 1648

    That not everybody can comprehend it as easily as a recipe for apple pie is understandable, and also that the Art is not within everybody's reach but must be practiced at the sweat of one's brow and with great devotion and humility. All cannot be learned by reading the Masters; fervent prayer is required and also the courage to work in the coal with one's own hands, as I myself did in my time. Pigeons do not fall all roasted into the mouths of those who remain seated behind the furnace. One has to go to a great deal of trouble, travel, wander here and there, sometimes at great cost and in great danger, even of one's life.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmuldvich View Post
    Because our Salamander is not asbestos...BUT...it is indeed similar to asbestos.

    Learning how to read the Texts is the key most everybody lacks. You may want to immediately reconsider your sources if they are telling you outright lies like this. The Texts (all of them, in parallel) are hands down the best source of information out there, and most of them are freely available online!
    Of course there is additional assumption that it might be saltpetre (potassium or sodium nitrate) - at least that's how some authors want us to believe, BUT! Put your attention at the silicate nature of asbestos.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warmheart View Post
    Of course there is additional assumption that it might be saltpetre (potassium or sodium nitrate), BUT! Put your attention at the silicate nature of asbestos.
    Can you explain why you suggest this?

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