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Thread: Plant Spagyrics - When a Stone Appears

  1. #31
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    Beautiful pictures, Dragon's Tail! Thank you for sharing!

  2. #32
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    Thanks, Schmuldvich (how is that pronounced, anyway? sh-MOLD-vic?)

    I have a new one for you. This is kind of what we're after, though I have a feeling that the salts are still thirsty. Imbibing from this point should require only a drop or two. This is the red tincture. The yellow is not only lagging behind, but I might have to add some more salts. I didn't meter them out by weight, just looks, and I think that crucible got less than the other two. Since I haven't really used number 3, I can borrow from that one.



    The waxy-ness disappears at this phase, but as the gel dries, it should again become like wax, and as this continues (I hope), we will see a change, and it will resist flowing (and getting residue on my hands) at higher temperatures (by adding more liquid, figure that one out, lol).

    This is through a process of letting it drink completely to dryness, then powdering, then imbibing again and stirring things up a bit. It incubates, and the process starts over. Not the most efficient tactic probably, and I loose a little to the grinding, but fairly efficient if you have at least a gram of salts. Any less, and I think circulation is necessary rather than an option.

    So, the new procedure without the water/color-change step produces something. I had a thought that the color changes in the original may have been due to nitrogen in the solution. I can't prove it, but the bee-balm experiment will attempt to figure this out, while trying to fix niter through a "natural" decay process of the herb, using a living fire gathered from nature. But more on that in a later thread.

    To be as clear as possible, a standard ethanol tincture was made, the herb (plus a lot more plant material) was heated to a steam, then smoke followed, but no fire (I think this is important, it's like dry distillation, but I didn't condense the fumes). Alcohol was completely distilled off, and only distilled water used to loosen the syrup from the bottom of my flask. That fluid was then cohabated over and over, sometimes until only the black tar remained and it started to bubble. Then again. I strained the red "oil" several times through coffee filters while it was concentrated to separate as much darkness as possible, and then imbibed the salt by the process above. That was this little experiment in a nutshell... I just had to do it twice to get you a picture of the jelly.

    The new mystery is this distilled substance that came over the distillation head as a thick yellow liquid, which seems to be working well enough on its own jelly ball. I'll post more pictures when it congeals. I believe this to be a more pure matrix than any amount of filtering could ever accomplish.

    Anyway, that's it for now. I might start a thread about the beebalm here in a bit, but have some other matters to attend first.

  3. #33
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    Nevermind, I think I found my "sweet niter." That yellow stuff turned my pH paper orange. I have trouble differentiating the colors on that side, but somewhere between 3 and 5. I need to get a better pH tester one day. It doesn't smell like ammonia though, it's sweet, that's probably why I didn't bother to test it. It also doesn't fizz with the basic salts.

    After my current project is finished, I should have some left, so I might test it on some metal shavings and see what it does. I need to find a way to fix it and get the nitrogen salts, as some of them may still be bound up in amino acids, but I want to use a "simple" method, cause that's kind of my thing. It must come from the plant.

    This is all just theory though. I have no way to confirm or deny the presence of nitrogen, other than the fact that it looks like pee. :P

  4. #34
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    Your redness is a great sign; however, it is still very dark, which suggests a lot of remaining feces. May I suggest activated charcoal? Or eggwhites as Hollandus suggest (as a trick i believe)

    Anyway. Good stuff! If you feel its a success, then it is
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    Your redness is a great sign; however, it is still very dark, which suggests a lot of remaining feces. May I suggest activated charcoal? Or eggwhites as Hollandus suggest (as a trick i believe)

    Anyway. Good stuff! If you feel its a success, then it is
    I'm working on this. The yellow is actually much cleaner, so depending on the results I get with that, we shall see. Washing the red fluid is a pain in the rear, filtering doesn't work, and someone here commented that the "internal feces" can only be removed after coagulation. In the literature, working with plants often involves several phases of progression. Even in my tinctures, I try to progress slower and see what I can learn each time, so I was expecting this darkness. The other one is still chilling in the dragon cave.

    I think Hollandus is WAY more intricate than what is required, maybe to be sure that his son learned the steps without overlooking certain avenues? Maybe to confuse us? Not certain. I like your idea about charcoal, as it plays directly into something else I'm considering for the next project. The dragon cave is an attempt to purify through crystallization after this first part is achieved. The picture above isn't the product yet, and I plan to carry this out further than the last to see what happens.

    I'm going to come up with a name for this that won't offend the "PS is the only stone" people, for now I'll call it the coagulation of the gross, as this is mostly a chemical progression. Maybe coagulation is well enough.

    This coagulation will bleed if left in open air, and perhaps that can be used as a method of purification as well, as the subtle red doesn't like the black tar after combination with the salts, and it will run from it the first chance it gets. I don't think I'll be exploring Hollandus eggs though, unless someone can give me a hint there for a possible metaphor.

    The method needs refinement, for sure. I've only discovered what I have so far through making mistakes and recognizing them. So, hoping to continue that trend. Last thought, if the black won't separate, then there may be some connection it has to the fluid, and it refuses to let go for a reason we haven't considered. Maybe it's the toad and the red is the eagle, and through rectification of both, we can let them form their holy union, ditch the chain, and join together. Just a thought.

  6. #36
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    I was hoping my next post in here would be the dragon cave, about half of the clear liquid has passed over, but there's still a long way to go.

    However, I mentioned a color change and a smell change in the early posts on this thread. Well I found that smell again, from a different source. About the time I was messing with the salts and starting the tincture of red cedar, I set up something else too. I stuck some of the cedar needles into a large pickle jar, and capped it with a martini glass to make a kind of alembic. The fitting isn't exact, but it works. It was inside for several weeks at first, but last time I left the property, I left it outside. Well, that sweet smell is back, and I didn't have to cohabate anything.

    Only a tiny amount of distilled water was added to the setup, and now there is a thick red fluid in the bottom that smells of that processed "Mercury" that I extracted from my tincture. Maybe something got in there and changed it (some common bacterium). The color change in the lab experiment came after adding water to the feces instead of pouring the alcohol back. This one evolved on it's own. But that smell. It's fruity and delightful, if not a tad strong, and it's in this vessel now. I don't think I mentioned this part of the experiment as I really wasn't expecting much from it. The fluid appears red, but more clear than what I got from the alcohol extract.

    I should probably add that EVERY attempt I've made until this one to digest plant matter in one bottle has been a complete failure that ended with a smelly mess. A recent one with oregano was covered in wine vinegar after putrefying. No idea what I'm going to do with it, but this one made a red fluid with that sweet, sweet smell.

  7. #37
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    I'm on full time daddy mission and have been for the last week so my brain is just completely fried at the moment.

    I still don't understand how you achieved a redness?

    I achieve my redness using the alkali salts to split the cellular membranes of the plant and make it 'bleed', however it appear to me that you found another way to break down the cellular membranes (achieve the redness)

    Mitocondria or necleaus, are my two ideas of where this redness comes from, im thinking nucleaus because thats where we store our DNA and there has to be lots of goodies in there, however, the other way im thinking is that it could be in the Mitocondria, the "animal" part of the plant... hense the red blood... who knows?? I can't wait to get a team of alchemists together to do all the hardcore chemistry involved in these kind of spagyrical works.

    Cheers 4 sharing btw.
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    I'm on full time daddy mission and have been for the last week so my brain is just completely fried at the moment.

    I still don't understand how you achieved a redness?
    I'm actually going back to spagyric basics moving forward, partly because I'm out of "experiment slots" in the lab, hehe.

    I'm not sure, but I don't think the redness is coming from the DNA. Breaking down those proteins requires very high heat. My boiling flask from the spagyric way probably never got over 120C even at dryness (maybe a tad higher), and I dare say this glass jar never got close. I'm interested in proteins because they contain nitrogen compounds.

    I like your mention of "bleeding" the red. That's what the initial product I started this thread about did when I left a portion in open air, but the red color was already in the "oil" that I used. I think the "blood" was possibly a purer form, as the black stuff stayed behind with the spongey solid.

    The red, from what I'm seeing and smelling, at least in my pursuits is developing through some putrefication. My little side experiment with the yellow and red fluids was through repeated cohabation and heating of the tar. The OP happened after mixing the tar and boiled down tincture with water (yellow evolved overnight, and changed to red when reduced). That glass albemic seemed to spontaneously trigger the reaction, even creating the same smell. And it was thick, like really thick. Not quite maple syrup. Maybe slightly thicker than fresh blood. I strained off about 200mL of the stuff from that tiny amount of plant matter. I don't have much in the way of equipment out here, and I didn't want to leave it sitting around, so I heated up the leftover matter, taking care not to let it catch fire, until it was an ash, and then dumped it straight into the glass. I figure I can sort it later, but most of the solution has become cloudy after sitting over night. The calcium carbonate and silicates (I assume) are sitting at the bottom, and there's a thin separation at the top. I only have internet out here for a couple of hours, but I'll get back to you on this with pictures when I return to civilization.

  9. #39
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    Pictures for you :P

    Well, my little white dragons flew into the trap as expected. There's a bit of moisture that doesn't want to leave, but this isn't quite the result I was hoping for. It is kind of interesting looking. This flask was wrapped in foil and attached to the apparatus with a lamp on it for about a month.

    I've let this greasy little black tar sit around for a bit. It has some interesting shapes and spines, but I thought nothing except fail when I first saw it:



    Then I noticed some of these tiny crystals in there...



    Any thoughts on getting these out? Might be worth checking out? Or just try to scrape everything out?
    I don't know, but I want my flask back, hehe. Sorry I couldn't get a better picture. These things are literally not much bigger than a human hair.

  10. #40
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    A rock!

    So I said this experiment carried on as far as it will go, apparently, I lied.

    I've been cleaning up my lab area, and it only made sense that I would mix a few things together. I poured the original alcohol from the tinctures (I had kept it in fluted bottles) back onto the black mass, and noticed that while the "special water" I derived would dissolve them entirely before, the original Eth from the tincture did not. Much to my surprise.

    The leftover powder from the jelly stone mentioned also in this post, when recombined with it's original Spagyric Mercury, also did not dissolve, but it both cases, a yellow tincture was pulled from the masses. This will be of note in my BeeBalm experiment as I proceed. I separated the tincture of my jelly stone, and the dark powder still had some red-brown in it. I let it dry and set it to the side. I was examining it earlier, and thought, "why not resolve this back into a white salt and add it to the tincture?"

    Broke out the torch, expecting a mass of smoke and smelly from my spagyric concoction, and instead this happened:



    The red-brown powder melted! It reminded me a lot of lead, but held it's shape better, staying in a bubble form, and heating to a bright red/white before I could notice the surface flowing. No smoke, no mess, no smell, and a very pure white "river rock" remained after heating. I did some subsequent heat treatment to combine as much of the powder with the mass as possible. Even when bright hot, poking it with a dental pick indicated a solid mass. I've not tried to crush it up yet, and will likely heat it a few more times. When cool, it feels like a hard glass pebble, but it's opaque white. Thought this might interest some of you working with plants. Add to the knowledge base a little.

    Oh, it's not solid white either. There are some very light red splotches on it.

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