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Thread: Spagyric Menstruums

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axismundi000 View Post
    So what is the point I have missed here?
    That my initial question intended to elucidate the nature of "Spagyric mercury" and "plant sulfur" by eliciting a tip from you. Not to give tip to you. The question did not intend to oppose your experiences, I'm sorry you took it as such.

  2. #32
    Fair enough.

    Spagyric Mercury is entirely within the science of chemistry, it does not transmute. It is an extraction medium which dissolves organic compounds and could be called a menstruum because these compounds cross from the body of the plant into the surrounding liquid. Spagyric mercury is not Alchemical or in some way Spiritual which is why anybody can do Spagyrics irrespective of how spiritual or 'good' that person may be.
    Last edited by Axismundi000; 08-27-2017 at 11:54 PM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axismundi000 View Post
    Fair enough.

    Spagyric Mercury is entirely within the science of chemistry, it does not transmute. It is an extraction medium which dissolves organic compounds and could be called a menstruum because these compounds cross from the body of the plant into the surrounding liquid. Spagyric mercury is not Alchemical or in some way Spiritual which is why anybody can do Spagyrics irrespective of how spiritual or 'good' that person may be.
    Ok, cool!

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axismundi000 View Post
    Spagyric Mercury is entirely within the science of chemistry, it does not transmute.
    From what I understand, the term "Spagyrics" denotes the art of volatilizing fixt salts. The whole Spagyrics tinctures concept then comes out of that.

    I would ask, how well does a spagyric menstruum volatililize fixt salts? And is alcohol capable of doing this?
    Last edited by Kiorionis; 08-28-2017 at 01:10 AM. Reason: Correcting Autocorrect
    Art is Nature in the flask; Nature is a vial thing.

  5. #35
    Spagyric means separate, purify and recombine and it uses the language of Alchemy but is not Alchemy. Spagyric works like e.g. Volatising salts so they distil over in small quantities with alcohol and oils are I think an area of overlap between Spagyrics and Alchemy. As I mentioned previous the difference between for example plant Spagyrics and plant Alchemy is not discreet. In a way Spagyrics and Alchemy is a false duality but clearly identified (certainly by me in my posts). When salts are successfully distilled across with alcohol and oils are they 'elevated', sublimatio in an Alchemical spiritual way for example. This I think is an example rhetorical question which moves the researcher from basic plant Spagyrics towards plant Alchemy.

    So what Spagyrics strictly means I thought was generally accepted and that the overlap into Alchemy is deliberate. The operator starts from methods that anyone can do and gradually moves into Alchemical works that do require Spiritual progress for the operator. Perhaps I should have identified this view rather than assuming it was commonly held.

    Edit: Without a clear idea of the differences between Spagyrics and Alchemy, if each persons view of these is different but they do not indicate what these differences are. The situation could be likened to a room full of completely stoned hippies desperately trying to communicate with each other.
    Last edited by Axismundi000; 08-28-2017 at 08:19 AM. Reason: Added a bit

  6. #36
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    Thanks for your clarification Axismundi000

    You might encounter some resistance with including "purify" as a middle step, because Paracelsus coined the term (or whoever he got it from) from only two Greek words, and I've even had another contact correct me about which synonyms to use for those 2 words. People can get really hung up on semantics. But I think your definition also reveals 2 branches of Spagyria that I've noticed, though I might be splitting hairs from the perspective of Alchemy.

    There is the first and most basic, which doesn't involve "purification" at all. "Burn the plant to ash, dump it back in, shake, settle, bottle, sell."

    Then there is another side that, while the operation itself requires not that the person has unlocked any doorways, is more spiritual in nature, and done through wanting to transform themselves both in the creation and taking of their potion. Attempts to purify the tiny amount of biomass lead to a more precious product. And believe it or not, there are even people who will tincture in plenty, but think that Spagyria is too complex a topic, because of ratios and "getting the mixture right."

    As the seeker crosses that bridge, and begins to learn several things as the compass points them toward products that are gradually more and more like alchemy. First the realization that more salts are needed, or a complete purification will cause what little they have to disappear. Then wondering why the salts are purified but not the tincture. Filtration is hardly the same as "purification." In new-age communities the solution might be blessed, like holy water. Each answer leads to more questions, and investigations in a budding lab.

    That was kind of my path to alchemy, after my initial failures long ago from studying modern texts aimed at making alchemy "simple" with their nonsense about essential oil, "salt," and alcohol to make a stone. They were practicing Spagyria and flat out calling it Alchemy.

    In fact, perhaps the two are tied together more than we admit. Where as people come to Alchemy for a lot of different reasons, for me the biggest was a single question: "What makes a process or a thing Philosophical?"
    Still hammering that out, btw. I'm no adept, and hardly a practitioner of the art, but all of this brings me back to my initial response to the op. Spagyria borrows the language of alchemy and applies it, at least in the modern world, to the art of perfecting tinctures. On the spiritual side, they use their tinctures as one would use an initiatic product, which means they spend a lot more time in meditations if they are serious about purifying their souls, because obviously there is a world of difference between a tincture's effect and even the most basic philosophical stone. I think my most recent product fell somewhere in the middle.

  7. #37
    Whilst Kiorionis mentions volatising salts in the sticky for Spagyrics Section. I am astounded that there could be any ambiguity about the common view of what Spagyrics is.

    Here is the Wikipedia definition it hasn't changed much since I checked it about 4 years ago.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spagyric

    Please note Dragon Tails et al where Paracelsus is quoted about separating, cleaning and then recombining. Also for example pp26-27 (beginning of chapter 4) of the well known modern book Real Alchemy by Robert Bartlett clearly indicates the same.

    I have no problem with people having a partially or entirely different view of what Spagyrics is but could they please indicate where it differs from the common description so that I can understand. Also perhaps if people wish to discuss Alchemy instead of Spagyrics or even the possible overlap between Spagyrics and Alchemy well that is interesting.

    ALL I ASK IS IF I SAY A THING ABOUT SPAGYRICS DO NOT CHANGE IT TO ALCHEMY AND THEN SAY IT IS ALCHEMICALLY WRONG, OF COURSE IT IS BECAUSE IT IS NOT ALCHEMY! IT IS SPAGYRICS!
    Last edited by Axismundi000; 08-28-2017 at 08:45 PM.

  8. #38
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    Volatilisation of Tartar, is to my understanding, considered a secretive Spagyrical process, wherein the potassium carbonates molecule is transformed, losing it's carbonate and bonding with hydrosolic compounds of water, essential oils, acetates, ethanols ect... It is achieved through circulation and there diversity is as wife as the aforesaid compound mixtures.

    Volatilised salts of TarTar overlaps into Alchemical theory with Horlandus, where he secretly describes the volatized salts to be Sal Ammoniac. "Sal Ammoniac" (Volatized salts) are used to penetrate bodies.

    Paracelsus was right, is saying tht the Veggie menstruum was both alkali and solvent. These volatized salts with completely dissolve in the appropriate solvents, creating powerful Spagyrival menstrums (special solvents) that begin to border on Alchemical, since Hermetic principals are required to perform circulations. At least, that's how I look at it.
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

  9. #39
    I agree there is secrecy surrounding methods of volatising salts. Also I agree that this is an area of overlap where Spagyric work moves across to Alchemy. I think in general there is secrecy with similar things with minerals e.g when dry distilling an acetate the material that accretes to the sides to the glassware above the solid residue in the boiling flask. There is a general Alchemical principle at work which in Spagyrics is addressed in the volatisation of salts. This is a much more spiritual thing and so outside the basic description of Spagyrics. I used the example of the Dalai Lhama and Adolf Hitler previous. Whilst the Dalai Lhama could volatise salts easily Adolf Hitler could not because this kind of Alchemical work is operator dependant. The spiritual maturity of the Alchemist impacts the work I think. Not saying either Dalai Lhama or Adolf Hitler do Alchemy here I'm just choosing two people for clear difference in spiritual attitudes.
    Last edited by Axismundi000; 08-29-2017 at 08:17 AM. Reason: Added a bit

  10. #40
    I think it is useful to add something here now all the nonsense has stopped.

    The milky residue that is left behind when you distill off the alcohol can be spoiled if it is over cooked. This is why sometimes it is specified to distill off the alcohol as close to its boiling point as possible (78.4 Centigrade). I find that even if it is a bit higher temperature you will get the milky residue as long as you stop distilling and leave some of the alcohol behind in the residue. The alcohol distilling off keeps the liquid at a low enough temperature until the alcohol component of the liquid being distilled is significantly reduced. Once the flask cools you get a nice milky Lysol.

    If for some reason there is a need to remove all alcohol from the Lysol gentle evaporation at say 50Centigrade will do that leaving an alcohol free milky liquid. I have never needed to do this in my Spagyric work.

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