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Thread: Deathlessness

  1. #1
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    Deathlessness

    Hello Y'all

    I would like too share my experience with Saint Vallalar.
    Some time ago I went to Tamil Nadu in search of Deathlessness. I was invited to take Deekshai which is roughly translated as transmission of Divine consciousness
    (Baptizing with Fire).
    Those who take Deekshai are known as twice born

    Saint Vallalar gave me Deekshai and ever since then I have been practising Penance which is a form of meditation using the eyes.
    The goal is to reach Jeevasamadhi which is the beginning stages of converting your body into light (Gnana Deham),
    I call it a photonic body at least that's what I predict it will be called in the future

    some info on Jeevasamadhi
    Please check out the site and all the Saints in Jeevasamadhi
    https://soonyata.home.xs4all.nl/jeevasamadhi.htm

    Jeeva Samadhi however is entirely different from the other types mentioned above, including Maha samadhi mentioned on another page on this site and can only be achieved by great yogis. It is a very advanced samadhi state closely related to the nirvikalpa samadhi state but then permanent. In Maha samadhi the body will decay over time and the energy will leave the body upon death. In Jeeva samadhi you cannot say the body dies nor can you say it is still alive, however the energy will remain in and around the body as if it were still alive and the body will not decay over time either (or extremely slowly as in some cases). This is a state where Siddhas enters into the samadhi state at their own will after completion of their mission on earth and their mind completely dissolved into the Divine, They stop the functioning of the body and mind.
    Incorruptibly of famous Saints is because they are in a state of Jeevasamadhi
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorruptibility

    We all come from the same Light source (Arut Perum Jothi, also called clear light). During the process of creation through the elements the physical body is formed. It is possible for us to reverse the process and make this physical body pure light, here and now, in this plane. We come from the source so we can be the source.
    When we express Love, Compassion, and Bliss we are all connected. We are One because those qualities are the qualities of all souls and also the qualities of the Absolute Eternal Grace Light.
    There is only one God which is the Absolute Eternal Light, no other form should be worshipped.
    There are no castes, no differences of sex...we are all equal.
    One should treat all life as he would treat his own life.
    One should not believe in scripture but gain his own understanding and knowledge.
    All religions, philosophies, and organizations are false, they are only hiding the truth.
    One should ask, “Do I accept death and aging?” If you do not accept this, then do something about it and follow my example."
    http://deathlesseducation.blogspot.c...r-penance.html

    In Siddha teachings the Left eye = Moon and the Right eye = Sun
    an interesting parallel in Horus
    Horus was the ancient Egyptian sky god who was usually depicted as a falcon, most likely a lanner or peregrine falcon.[9] His right eye was associated with the sun god, Ra. The eye symbol represents the marking around the eye of the falcon, including the "teardrop" marking sometimes found below the eye. The mirror image, or left eye, sometimes represented the moon and the god Djehuti (Thoth).[10]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_Horus
    Below is more information on Siddha teachings
    There is a small hole of the size of needle tip in the center of the Pupil of the eyes. This hole is covered by Karma as 7 layers.
    Soul is present in the center of the head in the place where our two eyes meet internally. The characteristics of the soul is divine light and divine fire. This divine light of soul is displaying itself in our two eyes and this divine light in our eyes is what covered by the layer of Karma mentioned above.
    Do Understand clearly the divine light of our soul is not the outside light that we are able to see. This divine light of our soul cannot be induced by any materialistic thing. This can be kindled only by the divine light of other Soul by the way of eyes. This can be done only by a SarGuru.
    During Deekshai Sadguru pierces the layer of karma and lits the divine light of our eyes by his divine light present in his eyes. This process is what is called as taking birth again. One who has taken Deekshai is called as Twice born.
    http://www.gurusfeet.com/blog/tiruva...baptizing-fire

    Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it. -Matthew 7:14
    And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?- Matthew 7:3-5
    "The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy, your whole body will be full of light.- Matthew 6:22
    In Tamil Nadu Jesus is considered a Siddhar
    there's even a book he is supposed to have written in Tamil " The Book of Love "
    When thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light... Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness" (Luke 11:34-35). "If therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light."
    Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."- Matthew 19:24
    coy little basta..

    quite recently we've found
    mammalian eye exhibits a "spontaneous and visible light-induced ultraweak photon emission."
    The light that emanates through the "window of the soul," the human eye, is not "imagined," but real and these biophotons contain energy and information (wave-particle complementarity of Light), capable of transforming our understanding of one another, and ourselves.
    I recommend reading it through
    http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/con...ght-biophotons

    " Left hand
    Right hand
    Both hands...
    Change!!!
    He who eats
    with the hand of worship = Penance practise using the eyes
    need not be depleted.
    The conscious ones = Have Magnetoreception
    capable of abandoning sleep = like birds
    need not die...
    they can live forever." - Tirumular

    the retinas in particular have been theorized to serve as magnetoreceptors
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8098713

    There's certainly more to the eye... get it ....sigh...



    “Whatever a thing is and whatever is its state, wisdom is to see the True thing in it”
    Last edited by Kibric; 3 Weeks Ago at 12:18 AM.

  2. #2
    I did read a bit about Ramalinga Svamigal, and his thoughts are a bit similar to those of some other schools of Eastern thought. But then his teaching reveals something highly disturbing (just like many of Eastern teachings).

    There is a big, and I mean really really big "IF", which stops my trust and reverence at those teachings at the very start. Those teachings deny very life - they demand from their followers to drop their families, to go live in the woods, etc., etc., etc. Just to get physical deathlessness? So what would be the point in everlasting physical life if you deny it and basically don't need it?

    While many points in the teachings can be considered as eternal truth (e.g. God is Love is Light, etc., no questions here), some stink by a very dangerous sectarian thoughts. I would definitely not want to live 70-80 years (which is standard life of those who speak about physically long life, and in my view it is extremely short) in some woods isolated from everyone and everything. I understand that we are all part of One, but personally I'd like to live my life as myself, without dropping my "ego", without disintegrating (?integrating?) myself in some deep Ocean of Eternity - I think such possibility of self-disintegration will always be here as kind of last resort, and I don't understand why this last resort is considered as "eternal life", smells more like total death to me. Nothing to discover about world, just voluntarily drop your 7 bodies of existence and "integrate" (or rather disintegrate) in Eternity.

    I don't want to hurt anyone feelings here, I am just sharing my thoughts on this. There is physical suicide, where you kill only physical body. But some such teachings smell like total suicide and death of all your bodies: physical, astral, ether, etc. under guise of eternity.

  3. #3
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    There is a big, and I mean really really big "IF", which stops my trust and reverence at those teachings at the very start. Those teachings deny very life - they demand from their followers to drop their families, to go live in the woods, etc., etc., etc. Just to get physical deathlessness? So what would be the point in everlasting physical life if you deny it and basically don't need it?
    There are traditions that demand those but they aren't Siddhar
    and I completely agree

    But Vallalaar doesn't demand dropping family or going to live in the woods alone
    he always taught that you should be among other people in society
    nor do real Siddha teachings
    In fact he encouraged people not to do that
    He always used to use the example of a shop keeper
    who achieved Gnana Deham by doing Penance while he worked
    citing that running off to the woods doesn't solve anything

    and I don't understand why this last resort is considered as "eternal life", smells more like total death to me. Nothing to discover about world, just voluntarily drop your 7 bodies of existence and "integrate" (or rather disintegrate) in Eternity.
    This is just a process to give you " heavenly light body " as the Taoists call it
    a new body made of Light, the total opposite of death, complete transcendence of the cycle of birth and death
    A True Human Existence as the Siddhas call it

    In no way is Gnana Deham (Rainbow light body) (heavenly light body) suicide or destruction of any body
    astral or otherwise

    The point is not just overcoming physical death
    but returning to a True Human existence free from the cycle of birth and death
    Siddhas believe that this Human experience called life we are living is not a True Natural State for a human
    they believe we were once beings made of Light and that is our True existence

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts
    you make some good points about some eastern traditions
    Last edited by Kibric; 2 Weeks Ago at 03:55 PM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Kibric View Post
    Vallalaar doesn't demand dropping family or going to live in the woods alone
    he always taught that you should be among other people in society
    nor do real Siddha teachings
    Probably. I was judging by description of his life from Wikipedia and it was very ascetic.
    The point is not just overcoming physical death
    but returning to a True Human existence
    Siddhas believe that this Human experience called life we are living is not a True Natural State for a human
    they believe we were once beings made of Light and that is our True existence
    There is truly something unnatural in current state of human's life. But I think we miss a bridge, a bridge of knowledge, which would allow to agree with such position about some other True existence. Perhaps you have some sources which would tell more about the practices in this teaching? I think some additional work should be done before working with "eye rays". If you aren't bound by secrecy, how did you receive Deekshai from Saint Vallalar? According to various sources, Saint Vallalar vanished in a violet fog in his locked room and was never seen after.

    I feel like being on the edge of high cliff before falling down when I read some teachers who tell about Brahmacharya, about leaving cycle of life and death, etc. Nowhere yet I found as precise teaching as in books of Sri Satyananda Sarasvati, and he is precise to the point: do this and that, and you achieve that. He also described a lot of false conditions of Samadhi, when people think they suddenly know all and received enlightenment, but in fact they only caught a glimpse of much greater force. Does Saint Vallalar's teaching have to do anything with Kundalini, or totally skips any working with it?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warmheart View Post
    Those teachings deny very life - they demand from their followers to drop their families, to go live in the woods, etc...
    I agree with this. The whole outlook and concept of trying to escape Samsara is a trap in itself I think, and perhaps for the select few it works (who knows). But I have - through my own pilgrimage - come to the conclusion that the way OUT is IN.

    In other words EMBRACE Samsara. Look at the deaths and rebirths as waves, and that your "soul" is floating on these ways in/out of different lives... almost like caught in a whirlpool. BUT if you learn to surf then you can RIDE the waves.

    When you ride Samsara, then you are done.

    The way out is in.


    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awani View Post
    In other words EMBRACE Samsara. Look at the deaths and rebirths as waves, and that your "soul" is floating on these ways in/out of different lives... almost like caught in a whirlpool. BUT if you learn to surf then you can RIDE the waves.

    When you ride Samsara, then you are done.
    I love this!

    Anyone can be thrown around and thrashed by a wave, but very few can actually ride the wave and have a higher experience. This person is not God--they cannot stop or steer the wave, nor has this person defeated the wave (they are still being driven/taken away by it...) but they are certainly having a more wonderful and fulfilling experience than the person being thrashed around violently under the wave.

    Well put! Great analogy!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmuldvich View Post
    I love this!
    Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmuldvich View Post
    Anyone can be thrown around and thrashed by a wave, but very few can actually ride the wave and have a higher experience. This person is not God--they cannot stop or steer the wave, nor has this person defeated the wave (they are still being driven/taken away by it...) but they are certainly having a more wonderful and fulfilling experience than the person being thrashed around violently under the wave.
    That's a great addition/clarification, Bro.




    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  8. #8
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    Perhaps you have some sources which would tell more about the practices in this teaching?
    There are 28 books by him but most of them haven't been translated from Tamil yet
    here's a PDF in english with precise details on the teachings

    Education for deathlessness

    http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUK EwjA87DH-YHWAhUrDMAKHRFyDusQFggpMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.va llalyaar.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F02%2FSpiritual-Education-for-Deathlessness.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFMi4JWySJFd1dOPwaMKgVV 0SaBZQ


    They are a funny lot , visiting them and talking with them is the best way to learn their teachings
    They used to rely on oral teachings face to face but are slowly catching up
    how did you receive Deekshai from Saint Vallalar? According to various sources, Saint Vallalar vanished in a violet fog in his locked room and was never seen after.
    I went to Tami Nadu at my lowest point , spent all my money on plane ticket to get there, and was directed to him by the man who translated the PDF above ,
    Saint Vallalar is very much alive

    Does Saint Vallalar's teaching have to do anything with Kundalini, or totally skips any working with it?
    No his teaching is not Kundalini oriented

    a bit more detail on Siddhas
    The Tamil Siddhas are outside system-builders; their whole technique is to jolt people out of their intellectual ruts, and their conventional, barren, morality. They laid before their audience an abrasive, shocking, uncompromising message exhorting them to shed their delusions, pretensions, and empty orthodoxies in favor of an intense, direct, personal confrontation with truth.

    They are the "un-tethered", non-conformist, spiritual aspirants, yearning for a direct and natural approach to, and a more intense experience of, the absolute truth. They reject the value and prestige of the scriptures, which remain the privilege of the few in Hinduism. The Tamil Siddhas may be considered as "scripture less" or "bookless" or nirgrantha school of Hinduism, as they are detached from any scriptural authority. The Tamil Siddhas belong to a non-conformist, "counter-tradition". What is meant by "counter tradition" is more than that "which opposes tradition". It is the "tradition which opposes". The Siddhas challenged many of the accepted beliefs and practices of the Hindu society and thought. They denounced idol and ritualistic worship and petitioner prayers as fetters holding back the soul from liberation
    http://www.discerning-wisdom.com/siddhas/
    They are very different from Brahmins and Yogis

    He also described a lot of false conditions of Samadhi, when people think they suddenly know all and received enlightenment, but in fact they only caught a glimpse of much greater force
    " One who follows the path of Yoga is a Yogi. The final Attainment in this path of Yoga is Samadhi only,
    One who follows the path of Gnana is a Gnani. The final Attainment in this path is union with Supreme Lord (Supreme infinite Light) "

    There are many stages after Samadhi , over 40, and your right many spiritual teachers stop at Samadhi thinking " they suddenly know all and received enlightenment "
    Last edited by Kibric; 2 Weeks Ago at 09:41 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Kibric View Post
    There are 28 books by him but most of them haven't been translated from Tamil yet
    here's a PDF with precise details on the teachings
    Guess I have another language to learn after Saknskrit. I will definitely read this book.
    There are many stages after Samadhi , over 40, and your right many spiritual teachers stop at Samadhi thinking " they suddenly know all and received enlightenment "
    It seems I was a bit quick to judge it. I agree with what Awani wrote above, and it seems that nowadays there are a lot of weird Eastern teachings around, which are centered at various obscure philosophy with very anti-life goal with little to no real practice.

    It will be also interesting to see how teachings of Saint Vallalar and his followers correlate with other Eastern teachings.

  10. #10
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    Kibric

    So it all boils down to this eye yoga you do daily, I mean that is the actual process to achieve this deathlessness. So is the theory that whilst you are doing this eye yoga you are feeding/building-up the light body (astral body)? So it is not physical deathlessness right? And what about the ageing process how does this fit into this equation? I mean if a person is physically ageing it would be foolish of him to think that somehow he is going to be physically deathless.

    I used to do martial arts from a young age so I always heard about people who were somehow going to use their chi to live longer but the truth is these techniques don't work, most these people look every bit their age.

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