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Thread: Rotation of the elements

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  1. #1
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    Rotation of the elements

    I was reading through the Donum Dei text yesterday and noticed the order of the elements was

    "The first is winter cold and moist, the second is ver, hot and moist, and flourishing. The third is the summer time, hot and dry, and red. The fourth is the harvest cold and dry, which is the time of gathering of fruit."

    Notice the rotation of elements is given as Water > Air > Fire > Earth

    Mostly the elements are given from their grossest to their Subtlest:

    Earth > Water > Air > Fire

    First I thought it was a mistake but then thinking further on this thought that it may be possible to rotate through the phases in a different order and still have success.

  2. #2
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    An order such as:

    Fire -- Earth -- Air -- Water

    ?
    Art is Nature in the flask; Nature is a vial thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiorionis View Post
    An order such as:

    Fire -- Earth -- Air -- Water

    ?
    I guess you could play around with the order and see what happens but usually fire is not first because there is a belief with most that the most intense degree if put first will damage the matter. Nothing must be made to rise initially many say.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luxus View Post
    Nothing must be made to rise initially many say.
    What does this mean to you?

    (In relation to the rotation of the Elements)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmuldvich View Post
    What does this mean to you?

    (In relation to the rotation of the Elements)
    Well the fire element is what causes vapour to rise (through evaporation/sublimation) and this should not happen until the last two stages of the cooking process. But like I said I have found alchemists giving the phases in different orders. I haven't read a huge amount of text so its a new discovery for me.

    Ice gives the best analogy Ice is a solid (earth)but if you heat it a little it becomes a liquid (water). If you heat water still further it becomes steam (air) and if you super heat it it becomes dry steam (fire)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luxus View Post
    Ice gives the best analogy Ice is a solid (earth)but if you heat it a little it becomes a liquid (water). If you heat water still further it becomes steam (air) and if you super heat it it becomes dry steam (fire)
    Beautiful analogy, Luxus!

    Do you see the parallel of our Great Work with this statement you just posted?


    Quote Originally Posted by Luxus View Post
    Well the fire element is what causes vapour to rise (through evaporation/sublimation) and this should not happen until the last two stages of the cooking process. But like I said I have found alchemists giving the phases in different orders. I haven't read a huge amount of text so its a new discovery for me.
    Yes! Ok, so if this should not happen until the last two Stages of the cooking process, what does that say about the first, our Preparation?

    The only reason you see the Masters disagreeing is because you confuse the First Part when they are discussing the Second Part, or another Stage altogether. Very few Masters wrote linearly. When/if you decide to read more texts, you will see the parallels.

    Sendivogius, Philalethes, and Arnold de Villa Nova would be a great place to start!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luxus View Post
    I guess you could play around with the order and see what happens but usually fire is not first because there is a belief with most that the most intense degree if put first will damage the matter. Nothing must be made to rise initially many say.
    I wonder about this playfulness. I for one ascribe to the "let there be light" theory

    Aries -- 1st sign -- Fire
    Taurus -- 2nd sign -- Earth
    Gemini -- 3rd sign -- Air
    Cancer -- 4th sign -- Water

    This elemental order is then "rotated" through the other 8 zodiac signs. I wonder why?

    Haha maybe that's why the world is so "damaged".
    Art is Nature in the flask; Nature is a vial thing.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiorionis View Post
    I wonder about this playfulness. I for one ascribe to the "let there be light" theory

    Aries -- 1st sign -- Fire
    Taurus -- 2nd sign -- Earth
    Gemini -- 3rd sign -- Air
    Cancer -- 4th sign -- Water

    This elemental order is then "rotated" through the other 8 zodiac signs. I wonder why?

    Haha maybe that's why the world is so "damaged".
    I dont understand how you have tied the four elements to those signs to be honest, it is not how I understand it but maybe you are following a different system.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luxus View Post
    I was reading through the Donum Dei text yesterday and noticed the order of the elements was

    "The first is winter cold and moist, the second is ver, hot and moist, and flourishing. The third is the summer time, hot and dry, and red. The fourth is the harvest cold and dry, which is the time of gathering of fruit."

    Notice the rotation of elements is given as Water > Air > Fire > Earth

    Mostly the elements are given from their grossest to their Subtlest:

    Earth > Water > Air > Fire

    First I thought it was a mistake but then thinking further on this thought that it may be possible to rotate through the phases in a different order and still have success.
    This is derived from Aristotle's cross of the four elements.


    The attribution of elements to seasons given in the Donum Dei is the scheme generally accepted in classical astrology.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luxus View Post
    I dont understand how you have tied the four elements to those signs to be honest, it is not how I understand it but maybe you are following a different system.
    What Kirionis gave is simply the attribution of the elements to the first four signs - a pattern that repeats itself throughout the zodiac.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luxus View Post
    I was reading through the Donum Dei text yesterday and noticed the order of the elements was

    "The first is winter cold and moist, the second is ver, hot and moist, and flourishing. The third is the summer time, hot and dry, and red. The fourth is the harvest cold and dry, which is the time of gathering of fruit."

    Notice the rotation of elements is given as Water > Air > Fire > Earth

    Mostly the elements are given from their grossest to their Subtlest:

    Earth > Water > Air > Fire

    First I thought it was a mistake but then thinking further on this thought that it may be possible to rotate through the phases in a different order and still have success.


    Hi, Luxus... I see this from the opposite side.

    (Why not ) --- Fire > Air > Water > Earth ... ?

    Even so, we can have success ! (or maybe not... )

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