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Thread: Transmutation is real, but the stone won't save you

  1. #1

    Transmutation is real, but the stone won't save you

    How could chemistry after all this time not have experimented with every possible combination/dissolution/coagulation in existence? To the physical alchemist, what is the "secret" that chemistry does not understand? A wise man once said, someone who cannot explain their craft to a 7 year old, does not understand their craft. This seems to be the case with almost everyone in the community, no matter what physical substance one works with there is but only one true substance that is capable of surpassing the material world yet affecting it, that being aether or as Hermes said "heaven the 1st element". This medium is everywhere, as Tesla/faraday strongly believed. Modern science has already achieved transmutation in more than one way, the problem is the philosophers stone is supposed to prevent one from dying. Does the final product of the stone produce a NEW substance that can cure/prevent aging, or is it simply using what already exists to achieve this? If so, why is it not known yet? Obviously producing Gold wouldn't save your life (except financially), so the elixir must be the goal. So what is the elixir made of? This is why I believe the true craft resides in the sexual/psychological aspect of our being, as it is the life energy that sustains oneself. This energy survives death, no body can. I still do not understand why people think the body can live forever, as hermes even said in divine pymander that nothing in heaven is mortal, everything on earth mortal. The stone may be a real thing you can create, it has nothing to do with eternal life. I believe it is more along the lines of the gnostic "chrism" as the process for achieving this state. Of course every single text written about alchemy is SUBJECTIVE, meaning nothing can be taken from it that is obvious, it is all written in parable/metaphor with the exception of the ones that are blatantly obvious that tell you the various things to combine and cook for x amount of time. More than anything, Alchemy has become searching for a needle in a haystack driving oneself crazy, rather than looking internally. I have yet to see anything close to what the physical alchemists claim is the stone or the elixir, conveniently nobody wants to share their "secrets" when in reality, years of research have yielded no results.

  2. #2
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    Well actually I've asked many times for a lab worker that, in exchange for picking up the pace around here I would happily share with them the secrets.

    It seems everyone wants the goods, without doing the work required. What country are you in ArcherSage? And can you nominate me for masonry?
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    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    Well actually I've asked many times for a lab worker that, in exchange for picking up the pace around here I would happily share with them the secrets.
    That sounds a lot like bartering off Gods secrets for a few hours work.

    Could this be seen as prostituting of the Most Holly of Gods Secrets ???

    As I see it .....these secrets are for God to give.....Only when he sees fit to give.

    And to whom to give !!!

    But as usual... I could be wrong.

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    I still do not understand why people think the body can live forever,
    what body ?
    what do we really know about our body ?
    have we really explored this amazing bit of kit ?

    the stone may be a real thing you can create, it has nothing to do with eternal life
    what is eternal life ?
    what body was Christ talking about ?
    the story says his body became Immortal

    what changed his physical body ?
    Mary must of had questions...
    someone must of asked questions we might ask...
    why do you smell sweet ?
    do you cast a shadow in sunlight ?

    I have yet to see anything close to what the physical alchemists claim is the stone or the elixir, conveniently nobody wants to share their "secrets" when in reality, years of research have yielded no results.
    if some one gave it too you ? is practical experiments you mean by research or looking into others ?
    its happened, people have been misguided . Edward Kelly took from a welsh monks grave...
    did they even really have a clue ? people in history are not really that different from us
    what would we write , if we had found it ?
    even if someone has it , they might not fully understand it
    alchemists make long of the short, they say others are full of shit and vice versca
    they are just like us
    finding someone in person who has the Stone is harder than trying yourself to make it
    will it make you laugh when you find it ?
    Last edited by Kibric; 3 Weeks Ago at 01:12 AM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by black View Post
    That sounds a lot like bartering off Gods secrets for a few hours work.

    Could this be seen as prostituting of the Most Holly of Gods Secrets ???

    As I see it .....these secrets are for God to give.....Only when he sees fit to give.

    And to whom to give !!!

    But as usual... I could be wrong.
    God gives His secrets, so that you will(can) work for Him
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArcherSage View Post
    I have yet to see anything close to what the physical alchemists claim is the stone or the elixir, conveniently nobody wants to share their "secrets" when in reality, years of research have yielded no results.
    What do you mean by the "physical alchemists"?
    Art is Nature in the flask; Nature is a vial thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    God gives His secrets, so that you will(can) work for Him
    To work for him....yes.

    But not to sell the secrets of the Great Work for a few pieces of silver.

    This is why the Alchemists must be most Trustworthy.

  8. #8
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    Manufacturing the Stone requires processes that modern chemistry would consider useless and superstitious, so they are not being researched in the first place.

    And the Stone doesn't consist of ordinary matter, it must be some kind of "hypermatter" that can have the described effects. And this does somehow tie in with what the ancients called aether/quintessence, for which it seems to be a medium.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArcherSage View Post
    How could chemistry after all this time not have experimented with every possible combination/dissolution/coagulation in existence?
    Because the subject and all its possible variables is so vast that ordinary chemistry simply cannot investigate all of it, not even in the roughly 250 or so years it has been around. It just hasn't been around long enough. In fact, you can also add the roughly 1800 previous years of experimentation by legions of "puffers", "multipliers", "chymists", etc. who long before ordinary chemistry even existed also tried a whole bunch of things and failed to discover the appropriate substances, their proportions and sequence of reactions which generate the Stone. However, some of these indefatigable empirical investigators did make their own positive discoveries in the process of trying to discover the secrets of the alchemists (see further below for this.)

    To the physical alchemist, what is the "secret" that chemistry does not understand?
    The manufacture of the peculiar solvent (which can take a liquid and a solid form) that makes alchemy possible. Without understanding this, you are hopelessly lost. There is no "substitute" for this solvent. It is what makes alchemy unique and the stumbling block for most seekers. Unlike "chymistry" and ordinary chemistry, which rely on a bunch of different solvents for their processes, alchemy wholly relies on this secret solvent for all its procedures.

    A wise man once said, someone who cannot explain their craft to a 7 year old, does not understand their craft. This seems to be the case with almost everyone in the community, no matter what physical substance one works with there is but only one true substance that is capable of surpassing the material world yet affecting it, that being aether or as Hermes said "heaven the 1st element". This medium is everywhere, as Tesla/faraday strongly believed.
    "Aether" is nothing but an uncorroborated theory. Just about as "proven" as "Spiritus Mundi" or the Tooth Fairy. In other words: a purely speculative claim.

    Modern science has already achieved transmutation in more than one way,
    Actually all transmutations achieved by modern science are by means of "smashing" particles with one another. Ordinary chemistry accepted such theories, speculations and empirical methods of physics and allowed a supposed "impossibility" to be imposed upon itself, namely: so-called chemical reactions cannot affect the nuclei (the internal area that supposedly gives the so-called elements their individual "identities") of tiny particles they call "atoms", all "chemical" reactions take place on the "outer" areas of these "atoms", where even tinier particles called "electrons" are (capriciously) located, therefore a transmutation cannot be achieved by making any substances react with one another. Of course, anyone acquainted with some of the effective empirical methods and proofs of transmutation of the old "chymists", all of which in fact work by making some substances react in certain ways (in other words, what ordinary chemists indiscriminately label with the blanket phrase "chemical reactions"), will have a good laugh at such claims based on such specious speculations and theories about matter. You will know that INVARIABLY getting small amounts of silver and gold from metals where these two precious metals were NOT THERE BEFORE such reactions took place (this is very important to be established, because ordinary chemists always desperately try to invalidate such evidence by claiming "impurities" or "faulty methods" must be the reason for the positive results; read the articles on the subject by ordinary chemists like Vladimir Karpenko, for example, and you will see what I mean) is not only hardly any such "impossibility" but, once you learn the appropriate reactions and techniques, in fact fairly easy to repeat over and over, again and again, always with success. Small amounts of silver can be obtained from metals like lead, copper, bismuth, etc. and small amounts of gold can be obtained from silver through "chymical" methods (notice: NOT "chemical"; their vulgar chemical methods do not work, they do nothing to metals, which is the main factor why they have fooled themselves into thinking transmutation by means of reactions between substances is "impossible".)

    the problem is the philosophers stone is supposed to prevent one from dying.
    That is true only in Chinese alchemy. In "western" alchemy the Stone was said to prolong life, but not make you immortal.

    Does the final product of the stone produce a NEW substance that can cure/prevent aging, or is it simply using what already exists to achieve this? If so, why is it not known yet? Obviously producing Gold wouldn't save your life (except financially), so the elixir must be the goal.
    But what use is to live forever or for very long periods of time if you are a pauper who cannot afford even a roof over your head or a decent meal? You would be condemned to live a miserable life for ages; sort of like your own private "hell on earth". Longevity without wealth, or at least without means to live decently, is more of a curse than a blessing.

    So what is the elixir made of? This is why I believe the true craft resides in the sexual/psychological aspect of our being, as it is the life energy that sustains oneself. This energy survives death, no body can.
    That will not achieve anything. It's uncorroborated speculation/theories.


    I still do not understand why people think the body can live forever, as hermes even said in divine pymander that nothing in heaven is mortal, everything on earth mortal.
    Maybe because "Hermes" was really just a "nom de plume" of a group of men, not some "God" or what have you, and what they were writing about such things as "heaven" is nothing but pure speculation and beliefs they had no proof whatsoever about. It's the perpetual plight of all religions: blind faith in things that they themselves can never prove are actually real.

    The stone may be a real thing you can create, it has nothing to do with eternal life. I believe it is more along the lines of the gnostic "chrism" as the process for achieving this state. Of course every single text written about alchemy is SUBJECTIVE, meaning nothing can be taken from it that is obvious, it is all written in parable/metaphor with the exception of the ones that are blatantly obvious that tell you the various things to combine and cook for x amount of time. More than anything, Alchemy has become searching for a needle in a haystack driving oneself crazy, rather than looking internally. I have yet to see anything close to what the physical alchemists claim is the stone or the elixir, conveniently nobody wants to share their "secrets" when in reality, years of research have yielded no results.
    Unlike the totally uncorroborated claims of the "internal" pseudo-alchemists, who are the ones that can truly go insane with all their weird and useless "methods" that have never been proven to achieve anything of what they claim, at least there are plenty of independent (i.e. people who were not alchemists) historical eye-witnesses regarding the reality of the Philosophers' Stone.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    Because the subject and all its possible variables is so vast that ordinary chemistry simply cannot investigate all of it, not even in the roughly 250 or so years it has been around. It just hasn't been around long enough. In fact, you can also add the roughly 1800 previous years of experimentation by legions of "puffers", "multipliers", "chymists", etc. who long before ordinary chemistry even existed also tried a whole bunch of things and failed to discover the appropriate substances, their proportions and sequence of reactions which generate the Stone. However, some of these indefatigable empirical investigators did make their own positive discoveries in the process of trying to discover the secrets of the alchemists (see further below for this.)
    All the possible combinations were done yet in the days of Paracelsus. People were throwing all kinds of things in their retorts and alembics but achieved nothing special.

    As I see it, problem lies in the very approach of chemists/chymists. It is totally wrong. Ancient texts teach the truth and how to approach it. Modern science denies everything and builds stupid hypotheses, if hypotheses don't work, it makes up another stupid hypotheses. If not for the special few people (Newton, Faraday, Tesla, etc., who didn't expose the way they get their knowledge), the science of today would be at the level of V-XII centuries, it is totally stupid, useless, immovable and dead, full of nonsense and contradictions. And while people might argue over this, they can barely break the barrier of 100 years lifetime, and world is full of hunger, war and declining ecology.

    I think, that one's worldview must be totally changed, and one must discard everything he learnt before, if he wants to approach the gates of the most transcendental Art, which is Alchemy.
    "Aether" is nothing but an uncorroborated theory. Just about as "proven" as "Spiritus Mundi" or the Tooth Fairy. In other words: a purely speculative claim.
    It is as proven as any modern scientific theory, if not more.

    I am not bashing science per se, but I think that [beneficial] results of modern science are HIGHLY overestimated.

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