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Thread: Phosphorus IS the stone

  1. #1

    Phosphorus IS the stone

    I am sure you all know the story of how Phosphorus was discovered, almost all of the alchemists were messing around with urine and how it reacted with different elements and temperatures. The stone of the alchemists also have two version, the white and red version. Conveniently, there are two major forms of phosphorus, white and red. It is easily extracted from urine and the color changes from the black-red-white as many of the alchemy texts of old mention these color changes. There are old alchemy stories of the stone vanishing/disappeared out of thin air, which phosphorus is able to self ignite/explode (duh). The red phosphorus is made by further heating the white phosphorus, which some of the old alchemy text mention how you can continue heating until you reach the red stage, if that is your wish. Of course we all know how important phosphorus is for plant growth/cell health for humans. It seems the most common and easy method for obtaining it is through urine. The alchemists always mentioned the substance they worked with being "vile" to the average person. The BOA mentions the use of urine, I am not here to comment on the method mentioned in the BOA, but it is true that alchemists have always worked with so called "waste" to bring forth the most important things.

    Thoughts ?

  2. #2
    The Rosicrucians, the brotherhood of light...the ones who searched for the light of God in the world. In this image you can see the red side, and the white side representing phosphorus in its main two forms. The light emitted from it must have been a spiritual experience for the alchemist, especially the christian alchemist. Interestingly, certain illnesses such as diabetes etc can cause the phosphorus levels in the body to drop too low. Phosphorus is extremely important to cellular and bone health (leading to homeopathy making cell salt plasma which contains phosphates for everyday consumption). It is used to create new blood, it is used to create ENERGY (energy is all that matters, you need energy to think, to exercise, to work, to be creative..wasting energy through means such as ejaculation, is a waste of phosphorus)


  3. #3
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    Main idea of experiments with urine was not working with waste but cathing up a life force. The stone itself may be made from few substances. The most important thing is life giving force, condenced in the substance we work with. Thats why gold and black sand, mercury etc are good as well if you have a proper knowledge how to catch that main essence that may be turned into state of conciousness.

  4. #4
    I always said the stone has to be made of something that we already know of. The alchemist believed everything was made of the same ONE single substance. The fact is, almost everything contains MORE than one substance in common. GOLD is not that great for you, and if the stone is made OF gold or FROM gold, then it has no value other than financial. This is why the elixir was more important than a solid object/stone. The elixir was consumed, many alchemy text mention the goal being the attainment of the liquid/spring/fluid/river etc. However I think what they were consuming was likely more of a SUPER vitamin/mineral drink that restored and preserved energy. Gold/Silver/Lead which are what most people associate with alchemy, have little or no use health wise for the human, often times it is detrimental to your health. This is why I think what they were consuming had nothing to do with gold/lead/silver or any solid form of anything. Spagyrics and the extraction of SALT (phosphates/phosphorus) and essential OILS is a reasonable goal, and is backed by science. Phosphates are indeed essential, and the oils have many great uses. Alchemy should be practical

  5. #5
    I imagine they viewed the phosphorus as the literal light of God within nature. Phosphorus is also extracted from PLANTS and soil, which is why you need to restore the soil its phosphorus levels that were used by the plant. Spagyrics in essence, is the extraction of phosphates through various means.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArcherSage View Post
    I am sure you all know the story of how Phosphorus was discovered, almost all of the alchemists were messing around with urine and how it reacted with different elements and temperatures. The stone of the alchemists also have two version, the white and red version. Conveniently, there are two major forms of phosphorus, white and red. It is easily extracted from urine and the color changes from the black-red-white as many of the alchemy texts of old mention these color changes. There are old alchemy stories of the stone vanishing/disappeared out of thin air, which phosphorus is able to self ignite/explode (duh). The red phosphorus is made by further heating the white phosphorus, which some of the old alchemy text mention how you can continue heating until you reach the red stage, if that is your wish. Of course we all know how important phosphorus is for plant growth/cell health for humans. It seems the most common and easy method for obtaining it is through urine. The alchemists always mentioned the substance they worked with being "vile" to the average person. The BOA mentions the use of urine, I am not here to comment on the method mentioned in the BOA, but it is true that alchemists have always worked with so called "waste" to bring forth the most important things.

    Thoughts ?
    Nonsense. Phosphorus is too reactive, it spontaneously self-ignites in contact with air, too difficult to handle for the ancient alchemists, who would not have had the adequate equipment and experimental techniques to tinker with such a substance. It was also only discovered accidentally in the 17th century by a chymist who thought he was on the right track regarding alchemy (but he obviously wasn't, and never succeeded in making anything with his discovery except selling the method of how to prepare it to other chymists; and this source of income for him was over pretty soon when other better methods to make it were discovered.) On top of that, phosphorus does not match the descriptions of the alchemists (where is the secret solvent or "water" and its peculiarities that fills hundreds and hundreds of pages of alchemical literature in any of this TOTALLY VULGAR CHYMICAL AFFAIR???), and, to top it all off, it does not effect any transmutation when cast upon molten metals (it only forms easily decomposed phosphides with them.)

  7. #7
    The secret solvent IS the urine, urine is a great tool for breaking down materials if its content is acidic enough. They also mention purifying this solvent because it was originally tainted or contaminated, they were purifying urine. The alchemist who discovered phosphorus was likely not the first alchemist to find it. Odds are, some alchemists many hundreds of years before had found this glowing stone and had kept it secret through various metaphorical texts, until later the alchemist who "discovered" it revealed it to the world, rendering alchemy obsolete. And you claim that I am wrong based on what ? What alchemy texts are objective and clear ? If the process was clear in ANY text, it would have been done thousands of times by modern alchemist. The fact is, phosphorus was a huge deal when they were messing around with it. It matches the white and red stage, the black stage happens simply by boiling the urine, which creates a sort of syrup. It matches description of the material vanishing into thin air. And the original substance where the work begins was said to be vile, and disgusting to the public. They did not want people knowing they were experimenting with urine and feces (which some texts are flat out admitting both of these to be the case, even storing material within stool samples as a heating method) . This is likely the true story of the stone, they wanted to keep this mysterious substance that was extracted from urine a secret. Its funny how so many modern alchemist argue and debate as if any of them know a single truth, in reality they all debate regarding subjective texts that do not make anything clear and precise. Its like a Muslim and a Christian arguing over who's text is more holy or divine. So many alchemist blindly believe the methods have been revealed through allegory, and some say its plain as day written in clear steps..yet nobody can achieve this. Phosphorus being the stone makes so much more sense, as the material was not really known until not too long ago, meaning for hundreds of years before they were secret experimenting with it. The other thing is the salt separates from the blackness, which is another stage mentioned in several texts (separating the black and white then re uniting them again later). The urine process will naturally produce the separation of the black and the white. Please explain the wonderful process of making the stone, and tell me what the stone is made of, and tell me if the stone is ingested or is used to produce gold, or all of the above.

    They also discuss this substance rising from the ground to the heavens, and needs to be captured because of its elusive nature. It has to be captured from urine, or from soil deposits, as it is not easy to find places to mine phosphorus (at least back then)





    Here is your stone



    Maybe they thought this was the gold ? Some texts state the stone being a powder at one stage (and even the final stage), which of course phosphorus can be that as well

  8. #8
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2862786/

    Maybe I am wrong, this study suggest excess phosphorus may accelerate aging

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    I agree with JDP... It's not simply because of historical reasons, but because it doesn't make sense... except for some minor details which are somehow meaningless (a white and a red "version"... and that it glows).
    Last week you had an idea related to electricity, this week it is phosphorus...

    Other than that, some things of JDP's reply are surprising to me, but I will write to him in private with an idea (an idea for the forum, not really an alchemical idea).

  10. #10
    Yes, the electricity was my attempt at being subjective and vague as humanely possible This thread was my opinion on what the alchemists BELIEVED was the stone, and what they were factually discovering based on what we KNOW they were experimenting with. BTW the phosphorus can also be extracted from semen or other bodily fluids. The electricity thing has more to do with my view on the spiritual nature of it all. The "great work" and the true alchemical process may indeed be purely physical. However alchemy as an art of transmuting and transforming energy into other forms (which is what they were doing, as all things contain energy, consume/eat energy, and emit it in various forms). Whatever you are working with, must be made of energy and is susceptible to outside energy. There is a method of renewing energy that I was referring to when I mentioned electricity, however it has nothing to do with the stone, but everything to do with transmutation.

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