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Thread: 'One Matter' - Empiricism & Alchemy - Discerning Truth from Deception

  1. #421
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    Thanks Kibric

  2. #422
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    The truth of this art is in this.
    In a word, if you can not attain to it in this life, yet shall you know it in your own body , when you are past knowing of it in this subject.
    .
    and you will laugh.

  3. #423
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  4. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmuldvich View Post
    My Work has nothing to do with the field of chemistry. I have nothing that I can compare to your chemical work because I do not work with heterogeneous matters.
    If that was true, then you would be working with what chemists call "elements", the only substances that can more reasonably fit into a "homogeneous" classification (and even then it is questionable.) This would be even a bigger dead-end than working with single but complex/heterogeneous nonetheless organic substances, such as you are really working with (very easy to see from the few pictures you and "Chasm" have posted.) So, yes, you are in fact working with "heterogeneous" matters, whether you like it or not. But the catch is: you will never find one that has all the necessary ingredients to accomplish the task. Nature does not make such a thing. Organic matters are notoriously lacking in the heavy metals that enter the work. As long as you keep assuming the "one matter only" adage 100% literally, you will never get out of this "philosophical" blind alley.

  5. #425
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    Pontanus, for what it's worth, on the Secret Fire:

    It is mineral, it is equal, it is continual, it vapors not away unless it be stirred up too much; it also partakes of sulfur, and is taken from somewhere else that from the matter; it pulls downall, dissolves and congeals, and calcines; the invention of it is artificial.
    SOURCE

    Up to anyone's interpretation...

  6. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    If that was true, then you would be working with what chemists call "elements", the only substances that can more reasonably fit into a "homogeneous" classification (and even then it is questionable.) This would be even a bigger dead-end than working with single but complex/heterogeneous nonetheless organic substances, such as you are really working with (very easy to see from the few pictures you and "Chasm" have posted.) So, yes, you are in fact working with "heterogeneous" matters, whether you like it or not. But the catch is: you will never find one that has all the necessary ingredients to accomplish the task. Nature does not make such a thing. Organic matters are notoriously lacking in the heavy metals that enter the work. As long as you keep assuming the "one matter only" adage 100% literally, you will never get out of this "philosophical" blind alley.
    Alas! Finally! You display an understanding of what myself and others have been doing our best to explain to you for almost 3 years now. This is an absolutely monumental experience! z0 K calls it "biomass", chasm called it "our Matter", and I like to call it "One Matter"...You tried to fight us and refute exactly what you posted above for years, but alas! The day has come that you comprehend what has been repeatedly debated with you for years! So happy to hear this! I feel as if we should dedicate this day to you or throw an online party of some kind!

    I am so happy for you, JDP!

  7. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmuldvich View Post
    Alas! Finally! You display an understanding of what myself and others have been doing our best to explain to you for almost 3 years now. This is an absolutely monumental experience! z0 K calls it "biomass", chasm called it "our Matter", and I like to call it "One Matter"...You tried to fight us and refute exactly what you posted above for years, but alas! The day has come that you comprehend what has been repeatedly debated with you for years! So happy to hear this! I feel as if we should dedicate this day to you or throw an online party of some kind!

    I am so happy for you, JDP!
    Apparently you have not understood my post, as I have never changed my views on any of what I said above. This has always been my position. And I have always known that you work on organic substances, it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure it out. One view of the pictures you... **ahem**, "Chasm", posted is more than enough to plainly deduce it. You are still in the same obvious dead-end, though. Nature will never make this supposed "one matter" that you hear about in many texts for you. It is hopeless to try to seek it already made "somewhere" for your convenience. You are falling for "the oldest trick in the (alchemical) book". It is actually the alchemist who puts the necessary substances together and then causes this supposed "one matter" to come into being, no one else. Nature doesn't put it together for you if for no other reason than it itself has ZERO intention whatsoever to make the Stone to begin with, anymore than it wants, or needs, or even knows how to make TNT, or Coca-Cola, or toothpaste. The Stone is made thanks to man and his intelligent, purposeful intervention and design, just like a whole bunch of other things that nature itself would never make on its own.

  8. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    Apparently you have not understood my post, as I have never changed my views on any of what I said above. This has always been my position. And I have always known that you work on organic substances, it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure it out. One view of the pictures you... **ahem**, "Chasm", posted is more than enough to plainly deduce it. You are still in the same obvious dead-end, though. Nature will never make this supposed "one matter" that you hear about in many texts for you. It is hopeless to try to seek it already made "somewhere" for your convenience. You are falling for "the oldest trick in the (alchemical) book". It is actually the alchemist who puts the necessary substances together and then causes this supposed "one matter" to come into being, no one else. Nature doesn't put it together for you if for no other reason than it itself has ZERO intention whatsoever to make the Stone to begin with, anymore than it wants, or needs, or even knows how to make TNT, or Coca-Cola, or toothpaste.
    Please review Kibric's post earlier in this thread on the subject "sounding like a broken record" when you get a free moment!

    Did you forget the discussion that z0 K posed about "biomass"?

    A lot of this stuff...the words and phrases that you relentless keep repeating...seem to exist only in your head.

    Has anyone on this website claimed that this "One Matter" can be found ready-made out in Nature...?

    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    The Stone is made thanks to man and his intelligent, purposeful intervention and design, just like a whole bunch of other things that nature itself would never make on its own.
    Exactly!

  9. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmuldvich View Post
    Please review Kibric's post earlier in this thread on the subject "sounding like a broken record" when you get a free moment!
    Says the guy who sounds like a whole library of "broken records"!

    Did you forget the discussion that z0 K posed about "biomass"?
    No, but what did he supposedly say there that I should "remember" here?

    A lot of this stuff...the words and phrases that you relentless keep repeating...seem to exist only in your head.

    Has anyone on this website claimed that this "One Matter" can be found ready-made out in Nature...?
    Yes, anyone who 100% literally accepts the claim also accepts that this "one thing/matter" must be found in nature already made. There is NO other choice here, since the literal interpretation of this claim dictates that you can only manipulate one thing only, from beginning to end. Nothing else. That maliciously and deceitfully excludes the fact that you actually have to make this "thing/matter" out of several, because nature sure as heck is not going to do it for you! Therein lies the trap of the "one matter only" claim. Anyone who takes it strictly to the letter is cornering himself into a blind alley that he likely won't be able to get out of.

  10. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    There is NO other choice here, since the literal interpretation of this claim dictates that you can only manipulate one thing only, from beginning to end. Nothing else. That maliciously and deceitfully excludes the fact that you actually have to make this "thing/matter" out of several, because nature sure as heck is not going to do it for you! Therein lies the trap of the "one matter only" claim. Anyone who takes it strictly to the letter is cornering himself into a blind alley that he likely won't be able to get out of.
    One what...?




    I stand by the fact that we do not work with one single element: this is what z0 K was saying in the "biomass" discussion I was asking you to recall.

    We work with one...Thing.

    Call it whatever you want, I like to call this thing "our Matter".

    No one on this website claims to work with one single element; this notion solely exists in your head, JDP.

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