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Thread: 'One Matter' - Empiricism & Alchemy - Discerning Truth from Deception

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    Indeed. But it doesn't empirically prove the impossibility of it, either. Therefore, it is not a FACT. While we can predict a very high probability to fall, we still cannot predict is as a FACT.

    I'm not saying it's a common occurrence to float in the air. What I'm saying is that an open & inquisitive mind should most definitely not rule out the possibility, as slight as it might be.

    Another interesting possibility is that such cases are more common than we might suspect, but the people involved make a conscious decision NOT to come forward. The prospects of becoming a lab rat are not so encouraging, either... And how about successful adepts? Why aren't THEY "coming out"? Why aren't THEY going to be have their transmutations tested by Randy in a "controlled environment"?

    What would be more disturbing to the status quo? Official proof of alchemical transmutation? Or human levitation?

    Randy himself didn't come out as gay until late in life. Certain people prefer to keep their "different-ness" a secret, and often for good reason, such as for fear of persecution, demonization or the likes of it.
    Randi & his people tested hundreds of such claims over all the years his million dollar paranormal challenge was around. None even made it through the preliminary tests. They all miserably failed to achieve anything of what they boasted they could do. That should tell you something about how little credibility this whole world of "paranormal" claims has

    Transmutation is very different from such bizarre claims, though. This one I know for sure it is real. If by the time I am ready to demonstrate the reality of transmutation to the world Randi happens to still be alive and willing to put his foundation's $1 million prize on the line again, I will gladly take on his challenge. And he will lose this time.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awani View Post
    No, because I was using love as an allegory to explain that you cannot prove/disprove someones experience.

    Also I do study science a lot and follow its development weekly... and it would be wise to understand that "gravity" is NOT solved yet by mainstream science... and a scientist that says something is a LAW is a fool and a bad scientist. Real scientists speak about theories and models, because that is all they have until new developments happen. Finally there is no proof that any "law" of anything in the Universe is constant.

    Even the Big Bang is a theory, as well as the THEORY of Evolution... both are actually starting to crumble with new "evidence", and new models made NOT by crackpots... but by established mainstream REAL scientists.

    But "love" is subjective, not everyone may experience it in the same way. However, we all experience gravity in the exact same way. Again, a big difference between both.

    I agree with you regarding theories, but those are just interpretations of EMPIRICAL FACTS. Theories have changed, and will continue to change. But it is the FACTS those theories are trying to "explain" that do not change. More new FACTS may come forth, but they merely supplement the older ones. They do not invalidate them. For example, sticking with gravity as a perfect example: no amount of theories or new FACTS will eliminate the FACT that gravity always pulls things in. That is a FACT. NOTHING will ever change that.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awani View Post
    Controlled? LOL. There is no such thing. The illusion of control, yes perhaps.

    Statistically the people most likely to go through a paranormal experience are those that are not "into" such things. People who really want to see a ghost, UFO or such things rarely do. The way to tell if someone is a charlatan is if they "want" to be a shaman or a healer etc. The "real" healers/shamans never want to be one initially, and they do not strive to be become one. Rather they are recruited by ? [what I call The Divine Mystery]. Kind of goes back to the wisdom of that Douglas Adams quote earlier... so hold on to your hat JDP...

    Also you might have missed it, but I think the issue is "fear" [conscious or not]... usually the root of all bigotry, racism, phobia, ignorance, boxed-in-thinking etc etc... and I think it is the root of the scientific mind as well...

    Of course there is such a thing as controlled conditions. Watch Randi debunk this guy's claims:



    See what he did? See what measures he took so that the guy could NOT cheat? What happened to his supposed "powers" once the possibility of TRICKERY was taken away? Yep, he totally failed! Why? Well, simple, because HE WAS CHEATING AND DID NOT REALLY HAVE ANY SUCH "POWERS" AS HE CLAIMED. That is "controlled conditions". They sure as heck exist and work. And that's how such "paranormal" claims should be tested.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    Randi & his people tested hundreds of such claims over all the years his million dollar paranormal challenge was around. None even made it through the preliminary tests. They all miserably failed to achieve anything of what they boasted they could do. That should tell you something about how little credibility this whole world of "paranormal" claims has.
    That's because those with genuine abilities are unlikely to seek that kind of attention.

    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    Transmutation is very different from such bizarre claims, though. This one I know for sure it is real.
    I personally believe it's real for you. But some may argue you "imagined it" (when hearing such claims). Or that there was some gold in there to start with. Some would possibly even compare you to Agent Mulder: "I want to believe" (in transmutation).

    Know what? I changed my mind. Your experience with particular transmutation was entirely imagined. You just wanted it so badly, that it became real in your mind.

    If it was real (which it wasn't) you would already have enough to go to Randy and collect that check. Transmutation is transmutation, right? But no, you didn't go to Randy with your "bizarre" claim, so I am therefore establishing that you entirely imagined it Oh, but wait, the prize is not currently valid, so there's a great excuse...

    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    If by the time I am ready to demonstrate the reality of transmutation to the world Randi happens to still be alive and willing to put his foundation's $1 million prize on the line again, I will gladly take on his challenge. And he will lose this time.
    Not sure who's going to be the "looser" in the bigger picture, and I doubt you'll ever get to enjoy that million $ ... People with such accomplishments stay silent for a reason...

    By the time I'm ready to prove the reality of "superhuman" abilities, I won't go to Randy, I'll teleport directly to your living room

    Also, people who make extraordinary claims and take them to the media are not the ones we should base our deductions on. Deduction based exclusively on attention seekers? Not very reliable...

    One would require a database that also includes those who remain hidden, and as this is not really possible, there goes the research...

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Last edited by Andro; 12-19-2017 at 07:25 AM.

  5. #65
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    Coded Language


  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    That's because those with genuine abilities are unlikely to seek that kind of attention.
    I don't buy that. You could easily arrange a more private test, where you have the possibility of remaining anonymous and still show the reality of what you claim (and still get handsomely rewarded for your troubles.) The fact is that all people making such fishy claims miserably fail to perform when they are properly tested.

    I personally believe it's real for you. But some may argue you "imagined it" (when hearing such claims). Or that there was some gold in there to start with. Some would possibly even compare you to Agent Mulder: "I want to believe" (in transmutation).

    Know what? I changed my mind. Your experience with particular transmutation was entirely imagined. You just wanted it so badly, that it became real in your mind.
    How can it be "imagined" when I have repeated several of these processes many times, always with the same success??? This is not any "coincidence" or any "imagined" thing. It is very real and repeatable. You can do it too. Anyone can. It has NOTHING to do with any "supernatural" powers or abilities. They are just EMPIRICAL FACTS. And FACTS are the same for all, not just for me.

    If it was real (which it wasn't) you would already have enough to go to Randy and collect that check. Transmutation is transmutation, right? But no, you didn't go to Randy with your "bizarre" claim, so I am therefore establishing that you entirely imagined it
    Since this is a subject still under investigation, of course I am not ready to openly teach it to the world. And first I want to make a nice profit out of it too, after all the time and money I have invested in investigating it. Once transmutation is an established FACT, the price of silver & gold will inevitably fall down. So unless I can get patents for some of these processes, there is no way I will make much of any profit from them once the cat's out of the bag.

    Oh, but wait, the prize is not currently valid, so there's a great excuse...
    If he is willing to bring it back at some future time when I am done with my research, I will gladly take him on. And he will lose that prize money this time. Transmutation is a FACT. And since it does not require any supposed special "powers", anyone can carry it out, even Randi himself, so it should be pretty easy to put to the test. Any able experimenter following the directions correctly will obtain small amounts of gold or silver from materials where there previously were none.

    Not sure who's going to be the "looser" in the bigger picture, and I doubt you'll ever get to enjoy that million $ ... People with such accomplishments stay silent for a reason...

    By the time I'm ready to prove the reality of "superhuman" abilities, I won't go to Randy, I'll teleport directly to your living room

    Also, people who make extraordinary claims and take them to the media are not the ones we should base our deductions on. Deduction based exclusively on attention seekers? Not very reliable...

    One would require a database that also includes those who remain hidden, and as this is not really possible, there goes the research...

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Not really a valid argument. You could demonstrate the reality of your claims and make arrangements for some privacy at the same time. It's a matter of reaching an agreement with the people doing the testing. Many of the people who have been tested actually really believed the things they claimed, others were just cheats and charlatans. It's a mixed bag. The fact they all have in common is that they ALL fail to perform what they claim once they are properly tested.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    you could easily arrange a more private test, where you have the possibility of remaining anonymous
    While some things may be interpreted as "facts", privacy/anonymity is not one of them... Especially if one "comes out" intentionally.

    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    How can it be "imagined" when I have repeated several of these processes many times, always with the same success??? This is not any "coincidence" or any "imagined" thing. It is very real and repeatable. You can do it too. Anyone can. It has NOTHING to do with any "supernatural" powers or abilities. They are just EMPIRICAL FACTS. And FACTS are the same for all, not just for me.
    At this point, those "facts" you claim about transmutation are real only to you. There has been no peer-reviewed empirical evidence to back up your claims of transmutation. As far as I can tell, you imagined the whole story. Reminds me of Paracelsus who constantly bragged about his "elixirs of long life" and died in his 40s. Or Philalethes/Starkey.

    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    Since this is a subject still under investigation, of course I am not ready to openly teach it to the world.
    Of course you would say that. Because it never happened and you imagined it all. Repeatedly!

    But I get it. My own research into UN-aided human teleportation is still in research and I am also not yet ready to share it with the world

    ________________________________

    Edit: I'm joking about the "imagined" part. I DO believe you. You are a dedicated researcher and you are obsessed with Alchemy. I see no reason why you would imagine such claims.

    On the other hand, I would expect the courtesy of you not dismissing my own (and others') experiences with serial mockery and obsessive "debunking".
    Last edited by Andro; 12-19-2017 at 08:19 AM.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florius Frammel View Post
    By the way, I'm sure that some of you might have heard or read about the Kervran experiments which for me seem to be pretty well made in an emprical sense. What I can not find is a work that actually has results speaking against his data and interpretation. Most people just say it is impossible and that's it. If anyone has a source please let me know.
    Edward Esko, a pupil of Michio Kushi has published the results of some Kervran experiments in his book "Cool Fusion"
    http://www.coolfusion.org/




    and he even made two youtube videos about Kervan's carbon to iron experiment.





    Interesting commentary by Mathias Grabiak on carbon to iron experiments.

    Last edited by True Initiate; 12-19-2017 at 01:56 PM.
    Formerly known as True Puffer

  9. #69
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    Thank you!

  10. #70
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    @Andro
    May I ask if you or a member of your household at that point in time were/was in a highly emotional state of mind? What I read about this kinds of phenomenas is that in any case it was connected to deep emotions.
    I don't want to argue about the possibility of levitation per se, I am just curious.

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