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Thread: The Black Pepper Tincture Thread, Free Medicine :)

  1. #1
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    The Black Pepper Tincture Thread, Free Medicine :)

    Hey guys, so Dragon's Tail here, still up to my usual chemical/chymical studies, and wanted to share this.

    Let me start off by saying that black pepper is amazing:
    https://www.omicsonline.org/scientif...9600-SR172.pdf

    Some of what I'm going to be discussing references that paper, and if you are looking for medicinal/health effects, they're all in there plain as day.

    So, the standard alcohol tincture isn't my end game here, but while bubbling some essential oils out of about 200mL of ground black pepper (which is apparently going to take a while with my current process) I decided to make a tincture with the stuff also, the results: wonderful, penetrating. I wouldn't go more than 5 drops per cup as there doesn't appear to be a need. I used three this morning and I feel less inclined to smoke, more energetic, and in general very good, and I doubt it's because I stayed up all last night drinking, so there's something to this tincture.

    Now. I capped away the tincture in 2-30mL bottles and had some left over (I only made about 100mL most). I wasn't sure if there was enough, so I didn't bother with another dropper bottle, but I noticed this white misty stuff on my pouring glass after all the filtering an filling. I added a couple drops of water, and bazinga. The tincture was around 70% alc because the crushed pepper used was already beyond dry, and I wanted to give it a bit of water.

    Adding distilled water to the finished tincture precipitated something, piperine, I'm sure of it. Those lousy chemists on youtube are a bunch of tards. When you add water straight to the tincture, the precipitate will drop, and the remaining tincture will float on top. Once it all turns into yellow milk, set it to the side to crystallize. 30 seconds in the microwave or any other gentle heating seems to aide the crystallization process.

    I filtered the slurry to get a very bright sulfur looking powder, which is strongly aromatic. Basically, concentrating the best parts of black pepper is SUPER easy and can be done in any kitchen. You don't need sodium hydroxide this or that, and if you are distilling the solvent off, then all you need is more pepper.

    I'm currently trying to wash and recrystallize the powder with a little distilled water. Now, the science and safety notes:

    Black pepper contains from up to 5-10% of this stuff by weight, so just assume that it's going to be 20 times more potent than your pepper, potentially 100 times if you have crappy pepper. Think about that before sprinkling on your potatoes.

    There is another chemical, Palmitic Acid, which is about 1% in dried peppers that also has similar properties to piperine, but it makes a white crystal. The brightness of this first product I have described could be from a concentration of the acid anywhere from 10-50% of the powder.

    The reason these drop out of solution is solubility, so definitely not an alchemical property, anyone can do it. They are both fairly soluble in alcohol, and they hate water. My initial eyeball measurements suggest that you get the most yield (so far) between 15% and 25% ABV alcohol, though it might be lower. You will know when you've added enough, just don't shake or stir the mix till it all goes over to milky. The powder at this stage appears super pure and started making tiny crystals on its own after more drying, so like I said, silly chemists and their 12 step process

    While Palmitic acid appears naturally here, and the pros/cons are up for debate, I can't see this being worse in this form than in the natural product, but I'm looking for ways to get rid of it. It is MUCH less soluble (about 50x less at STP) in water than piperine, so washing through filter paper and recrystalizing should pretty well rid you of any trace amounts, just like we do with plant salts. It also has a lower melting point (63C vs 130C). Might even be worth hanging onto some, if it's actually in the yellow powder at all. It's slightly more soluble in alcohol so it might still be in the leftover tincture solution. I'll let you know if I end up recovering any. This is just a friendly warning about a potential impurity, it may not show up.

    While your yield will be a little lower than the long way, for sure, this is a safe, easy method, and the drop in product is minimal, especially when comparing the cost of NaOH vs just getting more pepper. :P

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    Good work DT! Did you get to use any of your new glass?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aham View Post
    Good work DT! Did you get to use any of your new glass?
    The new flat bottom 250mLs are very handy I also used my straight take-off adapter to make a sort of buchner funnel when I was filtering the powder. My distillation train at the moment is using old parts, but I'm going to change it up to a retort type setup for the next batch of fluid. 200mL of black pepper ended up making about 1.5L of decoction and I was worried about overheating. Think I have it under control now I need to get the thermometer into the water to keep an eye on it instead of sticking out of the sand bath, so I will probably use the new claisen and elbow on the next run with my single neck boiler. The 500 is a bit too small for this and I'm not sure what kind of sticky will come out. Don't want to stain the brand new bottle just yet.

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    Sounds like you have most of the mechanics worked out.

    Pics of the process would be nice.

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    As far as THAT process. I want to get a little farther along. I was thinking of cooking pots, pretending to be an ancient watching the stew boil and the veggies get mush, wondering what would happen (or likely did happen a lot) with just letting it boil in the pot all night.

    Flash back to reality, I tossed some pepper and water in a 1L boiler and put a reflux on it for a couple days, nothing popped into the collection flask way up top. I kept trying to water down the solution because I feared it would scorch, but that didn't help anything except make more. Just trying to tease the essential oil off gently now.
    this little cave forming was pretty cool. The first batch, 200mL of pepper drank every bit of 400mL of distilled water:


    On the tincture side, I did manage to snap a shot before the last bit of water was added to make the milk.


    I tried this with some other tinctures and it (obviously) didn't work, no similar compounds. Closest I got was slightly cloudy. The tincture process above is pretty straightforward. Tincture, decant, filter, store whatever tincture you want to keep, and then titrate water until the milk curdles, hehe. I didn't dry off the eth solvent first, which is the first step of the chemical separation. My way is much easier, and likely a purer product. I don't know why the chemists do that long involved procedure.

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    Can we see the crystals DT?
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

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    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    Can we see the crystals DT?
    They're still drying, they look like yellow powder mostly, except the tiny ones on the wall of the glass. Once I collect the rest and dry everything up, I'll snap a pic for you guys. If you're lucky I'll break out the macro lens. Piperine crystals are cool looking but all the pictures online show them tiny.

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    Oh and yes I do happen to have a black pepper batch sitting in absolute alcohol.

    What do you want me to do with it?
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

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    EM: Basically wondering if you get the same results. It doesn't take much to test. I used a 70% alcohol concentration, but should still work with absolute. If you take around 20-30mL, add distilled water. You can do a drop at a time at first, and you should see a titration type of reaction with a white cloud appearing and then rendering away immediately. If you add a bit more, the cloudy layer will separate to the bottom. I think about 4-5 parts water to one part tincture should do the trick to precipitate as much piperine solution as possible. It has to settle for a couple days, but it will clump up, and then you can filter it off. Let dry and make your own crystals, haha.

    Update. I noticed in the filtrate some streaks of green, so this might be the tar dropping out after a bit of drying. I also started thinking, there will probably be some waxes/oils too. My little crystals are starting to form, but they're tiny, spiny, and a bit cloudy. After all the solution dries I'll post a pic. It's evaporating in a warm spot next to my distillation pot.

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    I will happily put my full batch to experiment with this process. That's why I love you DT because your always looking at spagyrics from an almost completely opposite view to me, lots to learn by studying your works.

    I can almost guarantee the same result as most alcohol extractions, when water is added, your other non-precipitating tinture is the anomaly.

    However, I never saw value in the precipitate, which you have kindly pointed out is foolishness. So thank you.

    Camomile, frankincense, rosemary are three off the top of my head that I know drop precipitate when water is added.

    This shit is the result of using alcohol.

    Its better to use the existing moisture of the plant and not use alcohol at all in my opinion, however this takes either very expensive set up, or shitloads of patience...
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

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