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Thread: The Black Pepper Tincture Thread, Free Medicine :)

  1. #11
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    I recommend your next tincture to be tumeric. Black pepper and tumeric have a symbiotic relationship in the body of causing serious antiinflammatory effects.

    I've helped people with serious sporting injuries with these two bad boys

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    I recommend your next tincture to be tumeric. Black pepper and tumeric have a symbiotic relationship in the body of causing serious antiinflammatory effects.

    I've helped people with serious sporting injuries with these two bad boys
    It was on my mind. Also agree with alcohol being more of a distraction to the alchemical preparation of plants than anything else. The more I learn, the more I'm thinking that the long boring chapters of "philosophically" preparing spirit of wine is bunk, and that the solvent needed is actually prepared from water and some distillation methods to make it "different" from common water. I've had water that resembles what they call "burnt wine." Looks like ordinary water, but is oderous after overcooking with plant matter while distilling. It will also burn your mouth if you drop a teaspoon or so on your tongue and hold it there for a second. You already know about my "golden" water from distilling saline solutions. I'm going to give Hollandus another read one day with this in mind. My "big" pepper experiment is actually being done with just distilled water and pepper. Nothing else added (cept maybe a little dust from the air). I don't have any results yet. I'm trying to cook off as much of the oil as possible, and then I will filter and dry my gums/resins. Also saving the "spent" plant matter for further experimentation before I burn it up. I'm making plenty of hydrosol this way so far, but not too much oil. There should be about 5% by weight essential oil that doesn't degrade up to 140C, if the chemists are to be trusted. The tiny bit of gum that I got from the alcohol tincture is wetter and stickier than normal, but also smells of wonderful pepper aroma. We'll see if the same is true for the water extracts.

  3. #13
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    Okay, here are the crystal pictures:




    The first photo is one of the clumps, what you will see on close inspection with a small magnifier.
    The second is a macro shot of a big clump attached to the one in the first picture, so you can see the tiny crystals clearly. The longest one I found is about 2mm x 0.5mm, give or take, and it has a red tip.

    There wasn't much here. As I said, about 20-40mL of tincture to make this. I weighed out about 3 grains. Might as well put the math here for reference...

    Piperine will go to ~66g/L in alcohol, so 10mL should have a little over 1/2 a gram, or about 8 grains. Obviously I had more losses than I thought, but the filtered solution was still VERY yellow. I'm sure some of it is getting bound up in the gum, and about half of the original filtrate is still soaking in the water I cleaned it with. Still, pepper is cheap, and this extraction method can be done without ANY apparatus except a couple bottles and some filter paper, so I think for someone new to spagyrics and synthesis of compounds, it's a very nice experiment.

    Conventionally these are washed and recrystallized in acetone. Again, screw that. I don't trust the stuff at the store, and I'm not distilling my own. At the risk of major losses, my Next trick is going to be a couple parts. The crystals will be put into a filter, and washed VERY gently with water to remove soluble compounds. I'll toss this water, and then dissolve the rest in absolute, and then allow to dry and recrystallize. The result should be fairly pure, I think. Hope you liked the photos,

    -DT

  4. #14
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    Beautiful!!

    What do you do with the crystals?

    How stable are they?

    What is the medical dosage?

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    I can almost guarantee the same result as most alcohol extractions, when water is added, your other non-precipitating tinture is the anomaly.

    However, I never saw value in the precipitate, which you have kindly pointed out is foolishness. So thank you.
    Interesting. I believe I tried a dead nettle extraction, which got slightly cloudy, but nothing like what I saw here, even with copious amounts of water (mixed up a tiny bit in a shot glass, then filled it the rest of the way with water). I have some other tinctures laying around that I'll experiment with. Could be interesting, especially if they will clump into filterable crystals after 24-48 hours. Could be interesting to figure out which compounds will exhibit this kind of behavior, or if there's any correlation between plant types. Rosemary and Frankincense for sure, I would consider "hot" herbs, chamomile not so much. (Frankincense isn't an herb but you know what I mean). Hmm, lots to think about, and perhaps there is a meaning to the ability to make a tincture that will "irish car bomb" when you add water to it. This method of coagulation is interesting to me for sure.

  6. #16
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    Schmuldvich, they should melt around 130C, so I expect that they are pretty stable. They don't appear to be delequescent. As far as dosage, I'm not sure what the LD50 is, but 3-5 drops of the tincture in a cup of water makes it VERY peppery and exhibits some effects. 1mL of pepper tincture could contain a MAX of one grain of this stuff, so it's super duper concentrated in the solid form. I think there are strong doses used as a test cancer treatment, but in general, I don't think more than a gram per day would be wise, and certainly not all at once, even though I think the anecdotal "cancer" thing was around 50 grams.

    Also, since the precipitate will dry with the natural gums and oils of the peppercorn included, I think that would be better for a medicine. It's almost reminiscent of a "nature made" stone of black pepper. Perhaps moreso with the addition of a little tartar salt I'm refining my little batch just to see what kind of crystals I get, and I might add some to my final preparation, or just make a bunch more It's very cool stuff. Good for treating high blood pressure and anti-inflimation, as EM mentioned, and all the other things on the linked PDF, but the biggest thing with this is making other things more bio-available. I think that mixed with other tinctures or as an ingredient in a more complex potion, this could enhance the effects and strengthen other medicines.

  7. #17
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    Could you dry distill those crystals? Or volatize them?
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

  8. #18
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    If I had to guess, from the proposed chemical structure, dry distillation might be possible. But I'm not ready for that yet. I need to get my lab setup at the property where I can get more experimental. It's an aromatic compound with a carbon ring, so I suppose dry distillation is possible, but I'm guessing.

    I don't think they are volatile alone, however an acid salt can be made from them by hydrolyzing, and that might go over the still head. Not sure. Interesting thought though. I have no real plans with the crystals, as I'm working on low temp cooking of the plant matter in water to get my materials for a jelly ball. So far it seems to be going well, but I still have a long way to go. I'm at around 500mL of hydrosol and a tiny bit of oil, the leftovers are turning themselves into powder after decanting off of the raw ingredient. The pot that I have going right now has been distilling for a day and a half, and I still have another repetition to do before I separate the first waters from the ground pepper. Then I will probably add the hydrosol back to the feces and distill again, separating off the powdery residue as I go. I'm trying to keep some notes so that I can do a decent write up later if anything interesting happens. The crystals were a side project that I thought would be cool.

    My brother used a few drops of the tincture in his soup tonight, after battling with a cold. He thought the immediate crystal formation was neat when the drops hit the hot water. We haven't discussed it, but he's up and animated now, obviously feeling better. It's great stuff, and so easy to prepare. The tincture alone is, I think, worth the time to add to any medicine chest.

  9. #19
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    So the crystals and tincture are separate things? Is the tincture just black pepper boiled in alcohol and filtered out the crystals?
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

  10. #20
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    The crystals came out of the tincture by preparation. But the tincture was a side project while my actual experiment with water is ongoing. The crystals were a nice surprise

    So, I'm keeping some tincture for a gentle medicine, and making another batch that I will try to get more crystals out of for a concentrated preparation. But the experiment to make the spagyric preparation is being done with water rather than eth.

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