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Thread: The Black Pepper Tincture Thread, Free Medicine :)

  1. #21
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    What do you know DT about the chemical situation associated with this crystal precipitate. Why foes it drop out of solution when water is added? Is this precipitate going to be the same.or different in other plant species?

    Do you have any ether? Would be interesting to see if its soluble in ether. Ether seems to be a pretty epic way of doing spagyrics, of coarse it has its disadvantages.

    Wife's in the city for Christmas so I'm on daddy duties at the moment but I'll try and get around to distilling some water so I can try this out.
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  2. #22
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    I think it's all about solubility and the alcohol concentration. The chemical in question for crystal formation is piperine. It has a solubility of 66g/L in alcohol and 40mg/L in water. I think diluting the alcohol more than makes up for the difference, so the piperine is forced to precipitate. When dried though, it's going to collect some of the essential oils/waxes/tar/etc dissolved in the tincture, so it won't be super pure. I still have a couple of days on the recrystallization, so far I'm getting clear, icy looking delicate crystals on the walls of the drying glass, but we'll see when they are done. I think they are just to thin on the glass to pick out the color.

    I don't have any ether and don't really feel any need to use it at the moment. There's plenty to be discovered in our common waters The water is a mystery of it's own, and I don't think ether was a common solvent for the ancients

  3. #23
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    Do I have to steam distill black pepper to get essential oil or can I just boil a pot of blackpepper and condense?
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  4. #24
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    It's usually done by steam distilling the peppercorns. I've boiling black pepper solution and collected some, but I cocked it up a bit. I was so paranoid about burning the herb and getting the temp down that I ended up with lots of hydrosol. I've never really thought the oil to be that essential to the process after meddling with the resins, that's your catalyst for congealing everything, I think.

    I'm trying to collect some for the mix, but the hydrosol should provide plenty of food for the stone. I don't know if the ancients concerned themselves with the separated oil so much as following the smell. The other thing is BP soaks up water like a sponge, so if you boil it, you need a high water to crushed pepper ratio. 5:1 at least by volume as I see it, otherwise you'll scorch the material. I haven't worked with water much, so I'm still learning the process. If I can get a system down, I plan on doing more work with mullein next year.

    Are you planning to do a similar experiment with water as the solvent?

  5. #25
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    No I'm going to make the yellow crystals and then reflux them in either their hydrosol or their essential oil.

    If you think they are penetrating now, wait till they are volatized.
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    No I'm going to make the yellow crystals and then reflux them in either their hydrosol or their essential oil.

    If you think they are penetrating now, wait till they are volatized.
    sounds like an interesting experiment. Tell me how it turns out. I might be making some more crystals soon, just cause they are so cool, but I'm going to let the washed solution recrystalise first. I might try to specifically go after some black pepper oil and follow your example. I have plenty of hydrosol available at the moment. It would be interesting to follow your progress. Please post pics if you volatize them.

    What procedure are you planning? A circulation with the white queen 7 times and then heat gently to tease them to the top of a flask? I still haven't done a proper salt volitization, and I'm suspecting that armoniac has to be captured in some form or another to make it happen chemically. At 130C they should melt, so it might be trickier than volatizing tarter salts.

  7. #27
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    To my knowledge your yellow crystals ARE "Our" Sal Ammoniac.

    Salt of Sulfur. I believe these are easier to volatize than potash due to their aromatic nature.

    It will take some time because the lab is a mess. I'll have to wait for my wife to come home to do the full experiment, however I'm going to have a nap and begin working the black peps.

    You've re-engaged me in spagyrics with this one as I always looked at the water separation as a FAIL. Hoerver, I didn't realize that drying the precipitate resulted in beautiful crystals. Are they flammable?

    I have proven salt volatilization in the lab using hydrosol but only as a proof of theory I didn't continue with the circulation's and didn't build up a collectable yeild.

    I believe in this case that essential oils are preferable for tartar, and that the hydrosol is to be used on the yellow crystals. Earth + Air / Fire + Water. Tartar + aromatics / pigments (piperine) + waters (hydrosol).

    This is my understanding. Let's see how we go anyway.

    Once again, always a pleasure working with you DT
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  8. #28
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    Cool beans. You may be onto something with the crystals having their own special place already. The hydrosol is carrying the oil (volatile) and the crystals definitely give off a scent of the flavor compounds. I'm really interested to see your results and specifics about the process if you are willing to share.

    Ripping the pepper apart through long slow distillation (water as the solvent) hasn't yet dropped any of the tars, and a powder is falling out of the solution slowly, so even the simple aspect of extracting the bitumous matter looks like it's going to be a couple steps of gravity filtration. Will be interesting to see if the piperine comes out of the sediment, or better if the resin produced is characteristic of piperine by the water method. This is one reason I started the tincture in tandem with my water extraction, so I would have notes to compare with. It'll be another week (at least) until I can ascertain if the water extraction also precipitates piperine from solution with the other tarry elements. Once that's done I'm going to try extracting more from the leftover earth, as it's still quite dark, this time with the hydrosol.

  9. #29
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    I believe right now DT you and I are working on a completely new way to perform spagyrics.

    Cool ey.
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    I believe right now DT you and I are working on a completely new way to perform spagyrics.

    Cool ey.
    Somebody's gotta do it, lol. And using 2 different processes at the moment. Hopefully when we compare notes, we'll make some new discoveries. I'm keeping with this water process for a minute, because I've had my mind set on it for a long time. I think our goals for spagyrics are in line--make good medicines. Little rocks are cool, but what good is it if it doesn't work? I also believe that the ancients were following the medicine path, and that led them to magestries and stones. Working backwards from the end product seems a little silly. I learn more by trying stuff, and then note interesting correlations with the texts.

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