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Thread: A Market for Elementals

  1. #31
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    Excuse me, if I interfere, but here, are you talking about evoking the spirits as in Clavis Solomonis?.Please correct me, if I'm wrong, but these entities, are just crystallizations of energies generated by people's faith or real entities? .I am of the same opinion as the bestseller novel 'American Gods', where the deities exists only because people believe in their existence, and cease to exist if people no longer believe in them. A sort of artificial elementals, in short....

  2. #32
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    I think people misunderstand what things are...

    An artificial construct, such as is being described, created by the magician, or by the faith of a group, is not an elemental, but rather, it is an egregore. A true spirit is sentient and alive, whereas an egregore is more akin to a robot or program; the difference between talking to an AI, or each other via these devices. One is created by the magician (or groups), to serve a function, to have a purpose. The other is sentient, living etc.

    You can follow the principles and align the powers and forces to create a construct, as simply or elaborate as you want. But it's not a true spirit, more or less a spiritual machine or program.
    The other comes directly from the Source and they are the Principles and Forces, living and farther reaching than a construct.
    You can work with them, give them reason to act by following their Principles (much as we use any force or energy; inciting it to work for us), and they can, when we get careless or take them for granted, use said same forces to shatter our works and humble us, because they have their own sentientce. The constructs/egregores simply do as programmed.

    Now, if you want to imbue an egregore with sentience... that's it's own can of worms.
    You'll end up with a thing much like this robot in this clip:
    https://youtu.be/3ht-ZyJOV2k

    Don't play God if you're no good at it.
    One fatal tree there stands of knowledge called, forbidden them to taste. Knowledge forbidden? Suspicious. Reasonless. And why should their Lord envy them that? Can it be sin to know? Can it be death? And do they stand by ignorance, is that their happy state, the proof of their obedience and their faith?

  3. #33
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    Yes, different terminology. I would call an elemental, a construct, I would call an elementary, a living being. They are different. Both can be created. You would want to have a good background in this stuff to consider creating an elementary, for the exact reason you just said, you don't want to play God if you don't know how He likes to play.

    An elemental can have one or more elements.

    An elementary has all elements, and the Akasha principal. It is alive. Your thoughts just 'want' to be alive.

    Elementals are created every time you think of something passionately, even if your unaware.

    Living beings are quite different, and this is why I brought up the point and discussing the definitions people are using. Right now Axis thinks your fuckin loopy because your basically telling him that using his iPhone is slavery, however what you mean is Elementaries, living beings of the elements. Very different from an elemental, which is a strong thought form.
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

  4. #34
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    Yay, I'm contributing to a Magical conversation. That is a sign of movement in the right direction. I'm happy
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    Making alliances, if so inclined.
    Yes and this is what I thought someone would say. No need to control if you can make friends, however, again, very shifty ground IMHO due to the 'deal making' that can go on, which I personally strongly forbid (in advance from when I will have that choice). If you can interact without making deals, your in the clear in my opinion. (My tiny insignificant opinion since I'm a total magic noon)

    Jesus says: Don't be a knob and make deals with people, you will pay every dollar, free yourself from debt... In more or less words. (I really need to recap my scripture quotes)

    No no no. No deals. If you can becomes friends, wonderful, however, I'd prefer to be standing in the Circle of the Image of God, dictating to these energies, rather than be tricked and deceived, and end up the slave of that entity (even unknowingly)

    All very interesting and important considerations I think.
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

  6. #36
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    To recap my views. Commanding energies and elementals is all in a days work for the practical magician, however that is very different from summoning a living being and forcing it to do your will, however, I believe that karma holds the opinion that the ends justify the means. If you commanded, and did good for others, your sweet. If you commanded and did wrong by earth, creatures, and humanity, you are royally screwed until you pay for said karma. (IMO) ((which I'm basically gathering straight out the mouth of Franz Bardon))
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

  7. #37
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    So finally, we come to what I believe is the point. When Axis and I spoke of 'buying spells' we are talking about magician made thought forms, not fairies and unicorns in cages on the black market.

    So I think some may want to apologize to Axis, since many claimed his ways to be unethical, before really understanding what it is he's trying to convey.

    Am I right Axis? Correct me if I'm wrong please.

    Note: I'm done flooding now
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

  8. #38
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    Fully agree that definitions have to be clear because a sentient being could be a plant, an animal, a rock, whatever... just depends on one's perspective.

    So if I drink milk bought from a farmer and said farmer, without the consent of the cow, has ''enslaved' the cow to produce milk, am I a "cunt" for supporting the farmer by buying the milk? Am I now part of the machinery that supports this type of enslavement?

    What about vegetables? What if I grow vegetables with the express intent of eating them when they are ready to be harvested? Is that a kind of enslavement as well? How do we know that vegetables don't object to being harvested? Maybe they had other plans besides becoming my dinner...

    In the limit, if I'm a math/computer nerd and I think of a new fractal program and make the program do trillions of calculations or a bitcoin miner and use my array of computers to mine ad infinitum, does that constitute computer/program enslavement?

    I only bring this up because I don't have any answers or even half-baked ideas on where to go with this line of questioning... Maybe we all do the best we can with what we rationalize to ourselves until we dig deeper and end up with more questions than answers... or the 'lucky' ones end up with resolution and move on.

  9. #39
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    Food, in any/all its forms should be respected and appreciated. The sacrifice is honored by what is done with it. Squander it, and no doubt there will be a reckoning.
    Hunter and hunted is different from slave and slave master.

    Those who form constructs do so because either A: they enjoy it/want to, or B: are made to.
    Using your iPhone is not slavery; it's a construct.
    Now, the forceful removal of people and nature from the environments where the minerals to build said constructs come from, and the forceful enforcement of a system that makes people work in the factories to build such, or starve/go without, is a form of slavery - and we all feel its sting to varying degrees, some more than others. At this point, the egregores of industry are to the point that we simply treat their maintanence needs as food and make use of the sacrificing going on. Doesn't mean there aren't repercussions occurring all the same though. ("Slaves" rebelling and filling the streets with death (theirs and their opressors), air, land, and water being poisoned, etc)

    Even in the more vulgar senses of the world, we see people blurring the lines and causing the ripples of their own destructions; yet still find the need to ask why it wouldn't be different in deeper realms.
    That is sadly comical to me.
    One fatal tree there stands of knowledge called, forbidden them to taste. Knowledge forbidden? Suspicious. Reasonless. And why should their Lord envy them that? Can it be sin to know? Can it be death? And do they stand by ignorance, is that their happy state, the proof of their obedience and their faith?

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aham View Post
    Fully agree that definitions have to be clear because a sentient being could be a plant, an animal, a rock, whatever... just depends on one's perspective.

    So if I drink milk bought from a farmer and said farmer, without the consent of the cow, has ''enslaved' the cow to produce milk, am I a "cunt" for supporting the farmer by buying the milk? Am I now part of the machinery that supports this type of enslavement?

    What about vegetables? What if I grow vegetables with the express intent of eating them when they are ready to be harvested? Is that a kind of enslavement as well? How do we know that vegetables don't object to being harvested? Maybe they had other plans besides becoming my dinner...

    In the limit, if I'm a math/computer nerd and I think of a new fractal program and make the program do trillions of calculations or a bitcoin miner and use my array of computers to mine ad infinitum, does that constitute computer/program enslavement?

    I only bring this up because I don't have any answers or even half-baked ideas on where to go with this line of questioning... Maybe we all do the best we can with what we rationalize to ourselves until we dig deeper and end up with more questions than answers... or the 'lucky' ones end up with resolution and move on.
    This mind state is where im at. Let's first understand what we are talking about, and then develope opinions. Let's not jump to conclusion's, we will likely make mistakes, and possibly offend perfectly decent people.
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

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