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View Poll Results: Is it ethically OK to 'enslave' incorporeal non-human entities to do our bidding?

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  • Yes

    2 10.00%
  • No

    11 55.00%
  • Not Black & White, it depends on various factors (please elaborate on this thread)

    7 35.00%
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Thread: The Ethics of Magical 'Enslavement' of Incorporeal Non-Human Entities

  1. #1
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    The Ethics of Magical 'Enslavement' of Incorporeal Non-Human Entities

    Axismundi has recently "accused" me of 'Cultural Marxism" and of "Political Correctness" when I challenged the ethical aspect of enslaving an entity, any entity, human and non-human alike.

    What do you think?

    Is it ethically OK to 'enslave' another Being/Entity based on the reasoning that "it's not human"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Axismundi000 View Post
    This is the standard cultural Marxist, critical Theory strategy and frankly I am done here or as you put it I cannot take the heat so I am leaving the kitchen. I have far better things to do with my time than bandy words with someone who infers such wickedness. All of like mind can enjoy this echo chamber together. [...] I am finished with all this politically correct Alchemy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Axismundi000 View Post
    [...] Having evoked to visible and/or physical manifestation all these and ‘enslaved’ goetic demons to serve my purposes, (in fact I think I have a couple left that still have tasks they would need to fulfill to be released from obligation to me the seals for this are in a steel box somewhere I think); I find this ‘human rights’ for elementals and Demons faintly amusing. [...] We humans are different to animals and diverse spirits, unlike them we are made in Gods image and can conjure and command (enslave) some types of non-corporeal entities.

  2. #2
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    I personally think that as phrased, this is a BIG topic, and people are going to disagree.
    Is it okay to "enslave" chickens, murder them, and eat them?
    What about harvesting of living plants?
    What about mining and manipulation of raw earth and minerals?
    How about forcing the abortion of fruits and seeds to subsist on?
    Do children manipulate their parents to get what they want on occasion? Is this a form of slavery.

    Since we are being specific to non-corpeal entities that I don't think anyone TRULY knows the underlying nature of, is it "right" for us to discuss the topic at all? I won't pass judgment, nor will I endeavor to "trap" some astral entities of my own. If you are inquiring for discussion, then perhaps Axis' response was over-reactive.

    Personally, I don't have an opinion on the matter, and I suspect there are people in this forum that would consider the whole thing a mute point, and question the very existence of these "enslaved" souls. Even specifically discussing The Key of Solomon idea and narrowing it down to that, I think there are different degrees of non-corpeal beings, and while some would be comparable or beyond what we consider "human" existence, some might just be the hovering "nature" around the astral version of a rock. I'm not sure how a corpeal being would be able to tell the difference.

  3. #3
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    The magicians maturity plays a big role in this, I think. I’d rather be a friend than a subjugator, for example.

    On a side note, ethics is a human construct. Some species of entities operate on a completely different structure. It’s ethical for them to do certain things we humans find unethical.
    Art is Nature in the flask; Nature is a vial thing.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiorionis View Post
    The magicians maturity plays a big role in this, I think.
    I think so too, regardless of the topic

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiorionis View Post
    I’d rather be a friend than a subjugator, for example.
    Indeed. I have quite a few mutually beneficial alliances with non-physical beings, but no "enslavements". I'm libertarian that way

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiorionis View Post
    It’s ethical for them to do certain things we humans find unethical.
    Maybe "ethical" isn't the ideal choice of a word. There are certain Universal Laws (not many), that can not be circumvented. One of them is Balance. Excessive/unbalanced potential WILL be resolved/re-balanced/re-equilibrated, one way or another. And "enslaving" an entity (any entity) does generate such excessive potential. That's my view on this.

  5. #5
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    All throughout the time there were cases when certain people made a forceful agreements (sometimes called as binding/enslavement) with some other beings. Usually it made those people gain power in this life, but little did they know about the required payment for that power.

    From the point of view of Reality, there is no "good" or "bad" - those are mostly human's concepts. At this time Reality needs to have deep Lower Worlds and someone need to fill them. This Earth seems to be one of main sources of new souls in this Era to fill Lower Worlds: enslavement, lie, deceit, materialism, etc. they all lead souls down there. This is kind of purgation before the coming of new Golden Age, when Earth will be full of new wave of Gods, and all the deceivers of Black Age will be spending their time to recover from their fall in Lower Worlds.

    So while enslavement isn't good on its own, it is good in terms of Earth's purgation in Cosmic sense. Slavemasters will need to get their turn to be enslaved. However, it is sad to see the whole Earth going to Hell, but such is the nature of Black Age.

    Higher Beings are also subject to such fall, hence the legends about Fallen Angels.

    This is my view on it, I don't necessarily ask to agree/disagree with me.

    What concerns my totally personal position, I am like Daenerys from "Game of Thrones", I hate everything that has to do with slavery, and it is very sad that this Earth is so full of it.

  6. #6
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    Right and wrong are concepts.
    As is the number zero.
    As is time.
    As is the word love.
    As is motivation and will power ( not to be confused with conditioning).

    Is it right to enslave someone.
    Simple answer is, do you have a problem with it?
    There's the answer. Haha.
    The Real question is, how do you enslave forces?
    What are the benefits and repercussions?
    Cause and effect.
    What are the effects?

    Most don't mind being enslaved.
    This is why animals live in packs and herds.
    The majority seek an alpha.
    Now! On to spirits.
    Summoning a force strong enough that it needs to be enslaved in order to command it is in itself a feat.
    Spirits are done in two ways.
    A. You make the spirit. It takes time. The Buddhist call this a tulpa. There are many ways to strengthen such a spirit. This is the slow method, although if your practice is intense then it is fed with this intensity.
    B. The fast an dangerous method. You find a force or source of intensity and focus the hell out of it.
    All Tulpas are made the same, the difference really is how you go about intensity. It is very much the method of fracturing your psyche. Legit split personalities is very rare. This condition is remedied by making the patient choose in personality, all others are smothered into non existence.
    I have personally only known of one alleged person with split personalities. An artist. At one point he decided to explain why he had been absent with his art tutorials. It was to deal with this issue. I found him to be sincere. One thing he did say though, the couple other personalities he had, they had the ability to do things for him. Things he could no longer do as he was 'healed' and now a single personality.
    Things like heating his body in frigid tempatures, or protecting him during dangerous times.

    Now. His personalities were personally created by himself out of necessity. His mind fractured. The other personalities had abilities an could manipulate the body in ways he could not. He would black out at times as the more powerful ones took over.
    This is extremly similar to the practice of avishkara.
    The mahavidya. You can make a tulpa without fracturing the psyche. Fracturing happens when the personality becomes as powerful as your dominant personality.
    This is actually why I brought up the hypnosis thread. Which I will comment in later.

    The correct way to fracture the psyche is to create powerful personalities capable of doing more than you can do now.
    Avishkara is a word, it means to become.
    See the tree, feel the tree, be the tree. When you are the tree, you are not you.
    Yet beware what personalities you create. It is manipulation of self identity.
    Enslavement is a synonym for control.
    Some personalities are beneficial in certain circumstances. You do not want them becoming dominant at the wrong times. Thus control.
    This is essentially tribal magic at its roots.
    There are 6 relationships I can think of.

    Brother/sister. mother/father. friend.lover.subordinate.master.

    Mother is seen as the safest of all these relationships.
    Hence, the mahavidya.

    Anyway, this is only one aspect of spirits.
    Spirits are technically forces.
    Let's say you have 10 people, a group. Group mentality can be considered a spirit.
    What's the cliche? It only takes 3 to have group mentality.
    Let's say you decide to fracture your psyche. This is amazing.
    Yet, create an alpha. Create a supreme personality.
    That personality is your root.
    In split personalities, as rare as they are there is always a strongest root personality, this personality is not yours, yet one you created that is stronger than you.
    An yes, they develope an become seemingly independent.

    Hm to end. The most famous method ( I do not know if it works). It is to take a freshly dead human body an manipulate the residual spirit leaving. Not the soul, just the raw residual spirit. You take it while it's leaving, an channel it.
    Since this cannot be done in most places, I feel freshly dead animals could be used equally. The bigger the animal the better. Or hell many small animals may be used.

    Another end note. 16 years ago when I officially started my path from the bottom of the totem pole. My first introduction to magic that was not through personal experience was a website that spoke of direct magic via pure focus. (Willpower). Willpower in this case being a synonym for intensity. There are many things that cannot be done unless you yourself are sublime in some way.
    Take Naropas teachings. He plainly teaches how to enter another body. Yet this cannot be done unless all nerves have no subtle tension left. You must also know the path of rejuvenating the body. An in having an abundance of life force in yourself you must be able to make a clearly fresh dead body breath again by imparting to it your own life.
    Hypothetically possible. Yet jeeze the amount of virility you would need to contain, an hell I would presume that dead body would need to be super fresh. Under 6 minutes before the brain melts. I know rejuvination exists.
    I understand manipulation of self identity and Tulpas.
    This coming from someone who coalesced his entire psyche into one entity purposly.
    Many things exist.
    Although! Again. Spirits.
    They are as complicated as Tulpas.
    An as simple as cigarette addiction.
    For indeed nicotine is a spirit (;
    In fact, all addictive substances are spirits.
    Yet they are nothing but dopamine stimulants.
    Which technically, you can stimulate yourself if you have enough control. Yet spirits of many sorts often have more power than we.
    Hence Samadhi. The practice of mastery of mind.
    Anyway! I am just bored. It is my birthday. Flowing with the usually opinions. Messing around with a bit of
    Enfleurage type experiments.
    To finally end.
    You are a predator or prey.
    Decide RIGHT NOW.
    There is no shame in being either.
    Sith or Jedi. = p
    I am of course a sith.
    The devil.
    Yet i never lie and I am no violent nor will I force anyone to do anything.
    Yet my persuasive power may be seen as a type of control.
    Far as i see it. You cannot be a philosopher's stone without embracing darkness.
    Oh snap! (=
    Join the dark side. We have cookies bro. I am a magnificent cook.
    Formerly known as Avaar186.

  7. #7
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    He plainly teaches how to enter another body. Yet this cannot be done unless all nerves have no subtle tension left. You must also know the path of rejuvenating the body. An in having an abundance of life force in yourself you must be able to make a clearly fresh dead body breath again by imparting to it your own life.
    Hypothetically possible. Yet jeeze the amount of virility you would need to contain, an hell I would presume that dead body would need to be super fresh. Under 6 minutes before the brain melts. I know rejuvination exists.
    Prakasysm allows one to pick up multiple bodies , dead and alive
    Bhogar did this with Lao Tzu

    Anyway! I am just bored. It is my birthday. Flowing with the usually opinions.
    Happy Birthday

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    Thank you Kibric.

    An as stated. I feel it takes an immense amount of already present vitality to do any such thing.
    There is also mention of the ability to purge a soul from its body so that you can enter it. This method is not mentioned though, only the possibility is mentioned.
    Formerly known as Avaar186.

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    There is also mention of the ability to purge a soul from its body so that you can enter it. This method is not mentioned though, only the possibility is mentioned
    highly unethical and unnecessary
    the same result can be achieved a few different ways with less expenditure of Vital spirit
    i hope you stay away from such practises

  10. #10
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    I believe that at almost every moment, forces Influence the human soul, unless of course one has done the necessary training to be immune.

    If you summon a thought form, it is a creation from you. It wouldn't exist without the energy donation from the magician. This can be described as an elemental.

    Contradictally, one could use trance/clairvoyance/audience/sentience to communicate with the 'consciousness' of pretty much any living thing, which could also be described as an elemental, when then again, a higher elementary force, such as the spirit of a whirlpool, would definitely be considered an elementary... As an example...

    I believe the destiction lies in whether or not the entity is created by the magician, or 'captured' 'evoked' 'controlled'.

    They are different. Ceremonial magic does have many trapfalls. It is important to make an educated distinction if you are to delve into such things.
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

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