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View Poll Results: Is it ethically OK to 'enslave' incorporeal non-human entities to do our bidding?

20. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    2 10.00%
  • No

    11 55.00%
  • Not Black & White, it depends on various factors (please elaborate on this thread)

    7 35.00%
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Thread: The Ethics of Magical 'Enslavement' of Incorporeal Non-Human Entities

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    A sentient, non-corporeal entity (or really any entity for that matter), should not be enslaved. A true Elemental is such an entity. A created thought-form, like a spiritual robot built by the magician, is nothing more than a small scale egregore, with a bit more substance than a simple spell. It's a thing made by the magi, and "programmed" by it. It can't be a slave because it's made with a purpose. A sentient spirit, such as Elementals, Archons, etc etc are not creations of the magician. They exist outside of him/herself, and are summoned.
    Summoning is akin to calling someone up, they can choose to answer or not. But to call someone up and then try to slap cuffs on, is pretty dickish and usually met with repercussions when those cuffs are removed. (Unless said entity is into that sort of thing. Always know what you're dealing with...)

    It is foolish to enslave a thing that doesn't want it. There will be consequences.
    Beware a patient being...
    All is One.
    Before Enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After Enlightenment, chop wood and carry water.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    A great difference would do for me, if these entities have own conscience, or simply they are chaotic and erratic forces of the nature.
    In the first case, I would choose for a mutual agreement between both parts.
    (And not only because) I think that this is a system that maximizes the possibilities to his major benefit. That´s how I feel about it.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    In the moment...
    Blog Entries
    I look at it like this, since nothing is black and white.

    Some people say abortion is murder. And some people say women have the right to make choices over their own bodies.

    My view: women have the right to choose, but abortion is murder

    You can apply the above line of thinking to the topic of this thread.

    Don’t let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Blog Entries
    I do think there is a purpose behind the fact that we have the ability to command these beings.

    After all, these beings are often trying to enter our sphere of influence and usurp control over us as well let's not forget.

    Without having actually performed a summoning I won't be able to really know for sure, however, if I command the ocean to give back a drowing child, God's not going to punish me.
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery:

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    In Indonesia it is common practice to make a dagger (keris) and trap a spirit in the blade. The dagger is then hung on the wall and charged with protecting the owner and house much like a guard dog.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Blog Entries
    Shun Gong god cultivation, i saw it a while ago and thought it relevant to the topic
    skip to 3 mins

    this is very similar to
    Arnold Gerrit Henskes " Mirin Dajo "
    from the wiki
    In 1947, he moved to Switzerland and initially was only granted a licence to perform without the ability to speak to the public. In his performances Dajo used several assistants but, after many disappointments, he paired up with Jan Dirk de Groot who was his Dutch neighbor. According to De Groot, Dajo had several guardian angels, was telepathic, and could heal people.[1] Time magazine reported on an appearance at the Corso Theatre in Zürich. The article alleged "that Dajo had 'proved' to Zurich doctors that his act was not based on fakery."[3]

    He was allegedly instructed by voices to eat a steel needle which was to be surgically removed. He did so on May 11, 1948. It was surgically removed on May 13, 1948. During recovery in the hospital he requested a lot of water for recovery which was only granted if he took full responsibility. To demonstrate his health he walked through Zurich directly after being released. Ten days later, when De Groot picked up his wife from the airport, Dajo lay down on a bed and went into a trance-like state. On arrival De Groot's wife was not comfortable with someone lying down as if dead, and asked De Groot to check his health. On the third day De Groot's wife asked him to check again. This time his neck felt cold.[4] The medical examiner announced he had been dead for a day. The autopsy revealed Dajo had died of an aortic rupture, though this was contested by De Groot and the aforementioned surgeon.[
    Last edited by Kibric; 12-30-2017 at 01:33 AM.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Many years ago I talked to dead people and other entities.

    I would DEMAND / COMMAND that they communicate and sometimes
    I would DEMAND / COMMAND that they show themselves.
    On an on it went with my stupid demands.

    I was VERY ignorant of spiritual etiquette and so full of myself with EGO
    and my new found power.

    After several months I started studying and working with a few different
    spiritualist groups doing spirit rescue and similar work. A few of these
    very caring individuals from these groups helped me see so much more
    and showed me that I could evolve to a better person.

    About this time guidance and direction began coming to me from
    higher level entities (not dead people) giving me some understanding
    of spiritual etiquette and protocol.

    I learned that it was not always in the best interest for the dead person / entity or for me to be doing so much demanding.

    I was advised to use the higher level entities to see if a particular communication
    was advisable or not and to use the HLE's as a type of telephone exchange for
    spirits / entities communication.

    I'm here today only because of the guidance given to me by a HLE / Angelic force
    that very clearly saved my life.

    As Andro suggests ..... an alliance can be so much more beneficial than a control.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Blog Entries
    So do we distinguish between 'summoning' and 'controlling'? Is summoning an entity a form of control?

    What does HLE stand for, high level entity?
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery:

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    So do we distinguish between 'summoning' and 'controlling'? Is summoning an entity a form of control?

    What does HLE stand for, high level entity?

    There are spiritual entities that want to assist and offer you
    guidance, these are usually referred to as spirit guides.
    My belief is that they come in all shapes, sizes and vibratory
    levels just like us.

    Often I would summon peoples dead relatives so they could
    talk to them ....this was not a good idea as the dead persons spirit
    could still be in shock from their passing or working through
    other scenarios etc, etc. Not good spiritual etiquette.

    Imagine that you were working in the lab and centrelink(social security)
    kept summoning you to come to their office.
    How rude !!! Haven't they got anything else better to do than
    hassle me ?

    Yes...I call them the spooks...HLE=high level entities=Angelic Force, etc.

    This is just my view on how some things work.

    I'm always interested in what others think.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    US. Missouri.
    My only way to summon an entity is to emulate their personality. To personify it within myself.
    I have felt the presence of 4 entities through out my life. the first is when I was youngish an was not happy at all.
    The 3 that visited me was when I broke my arm. My arm was broken because I was deviating from my path. I told them to go away an they were honestly emotionally hurt because I told them that. It was like telling a girl trying to help you to leave you alone.
    The 5th entity was huge. It filled up the space of a living room. It was 20x20 feet easily.
    An visited me while I was emulating kalis personality. An then was told no, I was not to leave life in pursuit, that I still had things I needed to do. I saw it. It saw me. I was apprehensive for 5 seconds, then realized it could see through me. then I laughed knowing I could see it seeing through me seeing it an being apprehensive was naïve. I laughed. it observed me, an then left.
    A spirit made of your own doing, or summoned it does not matter. Either can become independent and sentient. only a fool thinks otherwise. Not all spirits once had a body.
    spirits are made in multiple ways.
    I do not know if the large imposing spirit that visited me was made by me inadvertently, or if I had attracted a large spirit. Yet it was the largest I have ever felt. It was as big as an SUV.
    Yet had no ill will I could feel. Mostly it seems spirits do not fuck with me at all. In fact I would say they avoid me completely.
    As for my mother, I talk to her rarely about such things. She wishes an desiers only a normal life. She has felt an had spirits mess with her since she was little. She says they do not fuck with her if she closes her self off. She generally closes herself off cause it scares her an she doesn't know what spirits to trust. that is the gist I understand. As of now I believe she is completely closed off. My mother used to be extremely intelligent. She slowly became more human and mundane over the years.
    I believe this is due to her closer herself off more and more to such experiances. It genuinely does scare her, she has no idea how to handle such things an never learned.
    The last time she had real contact was 6 years ago.
    An I believe she actively closed herself off since then. She said if she closes herself off, no spirits bother her. It is interesting. Because if she was crazy, well you cannot actually close yourself off from that. I find it intriguing that she was able to close herself off. Some spirits are not nice. But many, if you ask them to leave you alone, they will do so. many spirits seem like people, they do not want to be were they are not wanted. although it is said, if you ever make a deal with a spirit, they will never leave you.
    I have never made such a deal. Nor do I think my mother has.
    Yet if a cosmic spirit visits you, the ultimate wish is to wish that such spirit never leaves you and is always with you. For that is a pact that traverses even death.
    Formerly known as Avaar186.

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