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Thread: The Dry Path of Alchemy

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    The difference between the "dry" way/method and the "humid" one is that the secret solvent is prepared in a solid form. It is one of the peculiarities of the secret solvent that it can present itself in several forms: liquid (like a "water"), solid (like a salt), & several points in between both extremes (i.e. waxy/buttery/fatty/greasy/oily/unctuous)
    sounds oddly like a sulphur rather than a mercury

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon's Tail View Post
    sounds oddly like a sulphur rather than a mercury
    Such are the arbitrarities of alchemical nomenclature. But the secret solvent in its solid & semi-solid forms melts with heat and then in its liquefied state performs its peculiar dissolving action on the metallic matter/s it is put in contact with. Thus the "mercurial" assignation to it, despite its solid/semi-solid outward appearance in ordinary conditions.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    Loads of uncorroborated "hocus pocus" in his posts/texts (including one you know all too well and which I will not explicitly mention here [...] pointing out the logical fallacies and total lack of evidence for this claim.)
    Merely naming a substance that is already often mentioned in R+C texts, is not a logical fallacy. As for the lack of evidence, we can say this about EVERYTHING we have not observed/experienced directly, including the authors you have deemed "legit". Maybe they were the "Hocus-Pocus People" of their times? Maybe the "witnesses" of those transmutations, like agent Mulder, wanted so much to believe that they could be tricked with relative ease, in spite of their "learned" background?

    The Zeitgeist is always changing. People, however - not so much.

    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    How do we know if they really succeeded in making the Stone? Well, since they are no longer around they can't actually show us (but in the case of the above mentioned "Theodorus Mundanus" we have at least two historical witnesses who independently witnessed transmutations performed with samples of the Stone provided by him: Edmund Dickinson and Robert Boyle), but that's what the point is for studying the works they left behind, to see if we can replicate their claims. But at least their claims can be taken seriously, unlike characters like "Rhoend".
    Well, they are indeed no longer around. And "witnesses" can have a variety of ulterior motives to tell such stories. I'm not saying it didn't happen. I am just saying we can not truly KNOW. Until we have made THE stone ourselves, we are still basing our research on unproven assumptions. Which is fine - that's what lab research is for! To either prove or disprove theories, models, etc...

    Those authors are essentially no different from some contemporary ones, unless we're employing the logical fallacy of "appeal to antiquity". All of them check all the boxes, claim the stone and provide operative instructions that can be replicated. The only difference IMO is that they are not our contemporaries and can not be subjected to same the level of scrutiny that our contemporaries are subjected to. (People like Patrick Riviere, etc...)
    Last edited by Andro; 4 Days Ago at 08:44 PM.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoas23 View Post
    I have both versions (English and Spanish) because they were gifts from one of its authors.
    I'd say that it's an excellent book... specially because it provides a Modus Operandi, but also an obsessive chemical analysis of the results of every single step.
    So the books are already out??? The only problem is i can't find them anywhere for purchase. Are they so limited?
    Formerly known as True Puffer

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by True Initiate View Post
    So the books are already out??? The only problem is i can't find them anywhere for purchase. Are they so limited?
    I have no idea, T. I.
    All I know is that the Spanish edition was sold following a procedure that was quite similar to the Alchemy forums Anthology.

    I have no idea of what they are going to do with the English edition, but if I was interested, I would probably ask the Publisher http://www.salamanderandsons.com/contact
    (I wrote to them in the past about some book, I can't remember what I needed, but they replied very fast).

    The English version I have is NOT an official S&S book, but a gift from one of its authors, a home-made copy that was simply a gift. So I do not even know if the books have already been printed or not, nor I know anything about their distribution plans... but it is easy to ask the publisher.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoas23 View Post
    but if I was interested, I would probably ask the Publisher http://www.salamanderandsons.com/contact
    (I wrote to them in the past about some book, I can't remember what I needed, but they replied very fast).
    Well it will be interesting if they respond. I just looked at their site, specifically their closure announcement. Have they moved sites, or are they closed for business? They must be up to something if their website is still live.
    Art is Nature in the flask; Nature is a vial thing.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon's Tail View Post
    Back on topic, the dry method is by "dry distillation?" That would imply that the solvent is created in the preparation of the materia, yes? Then it would be "one material," dry distilled into a solvent, a black stinking earth, a black "salt," and maybe some other crap? Sounds like what the plant people do to me.
    That is right! The secret solvent is created in the dry distillation. The secret solvent is a solvent inside a solvent which is composed of philosophical mercury and sulfur. It is clearer to say the secret solvent received in the dry distillation is a combination of alchemical water, fire, and air that are purified then rejoined. How that is done is the difference between receiving a solid, liquid or waxy cream.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by z0 K View Post
    That is right! The secret solvent is created in the dry distillation. The secret solvent is a solvent inside a solvent which is composed of philosophical mercury and sulfur. It is clearer to say the secret solvent received in the dry distillation is a combination of alchemical water, fire, and air that are purified then rejoined. How that is done is the difference between receiving a solid, liquid or waxy cream.
    The more I learn about dry distillation, the more surprised I get. Like the fact that wood tar can be used for medicinal and even candying purposes, even though most people around me would immediately turn their noses up to it. Also interesting is methanol vs turpentine production from different types of wood (hardwood deciduous vs pine). Water is another product, as is acetic acid...

    soo... in a way, these things might be procurable by other means. Distilled liquors usually contain methanol unless it's fractioned off, and the bacterial attack on alcohol makes acetic. I wonder how much the tar produced by distilling a tincture has in common with its dry distilled neighbor. Hmmm. Makes me wonder about a lot of things in the text, and as per this conversation, the many, many different paths that could (potentially) lead to the same things.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon's Tail View Post
    The more I learn about dry distillation, the more surprised I get. Like the fact that wood tar can be used for medicinal and even candying purposes, even though most people around me would immediately turn their noses up to it. Also interesting is methanol vs turpentine production from different types of wood (hardwood deciduous vs pine). Water is another product, as is acetic acid...

    soo... in a way, these things might be procurable by other means. Distilled liquors usually contain methanol unless it's fractioned off, and the bacterial attack on alcohol makes acetic. I wonder how much the tar produced by distilling a tincture has in common with its dry distilled neighbor. Hmmm. Makes me wonder about a lot of things in the text, and as per this conversation, the many, many different paths that could (potentially) lead to the same things.
    We are on the same track. Wood tar or any bio-tar contains Elements essential to the secret solvent. The pyro-water obtained from the dry distillation contains Elements essential to the secret solvent. If you think with a chemistry modus of operations the possibilities become frustratingly compounded. It is mind numbingly complex to think about all of the possible ligatures for the combining into the secret solvent. It is much easier to simply follow the alchemical protocols detailing the relationships between Fire and Water which penetrate, and Air and Earth which coagulate.

    Some find it impossible to believe and therefore cannot see it, but the Fifth Element controls the manifestation of the Philosophical Matter that precipitates the chemistry molecules. The Uncertainty Principle reveals that searching for the culprit responsible for the Philosophical manifestation through chemistry will be unsuccessful. If one had the Stone one could not reverse engineer it because the Fifth Element is lost when the molecules It held together are deconstructed. Attempting to reconstruct the Stone by synthetically compounding the molecules observed in the deconstruction ends in failure to produce the Stone because the Fifth Element is not in control of the process. The Fifth Element is Life specifically and Intelligence in general.

    If you have that all paths lead to the same things.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by z0 K View Post
    We are on the same track. Wood tar or any bio-tar contains Elements essential to the secret solvent. The pyro-water obtained from the dry distillation contains Elements essential to the secret solvent. If you think with a chemistry modus of operations the possibilities become frustratingly compounded. It is mind numbingly complex to think about all of the possible ligatures for the combining into the secret solvent. It is much easier to simply follow the alchemical protocols detailing the relationships between Fire and Water which penetrate, and Air and Earth which coagulate.
    WOOD secret solvent ? etc etc
    MAYBE IN THIS ARTICLE LINK of the our Lynn Osburn of the 2009 maybe ? there are some interesting to analyzed deepen about this ?
    quote :

    ...We are on the same track. Wood tar or any bio-tar contains Elements essential to the secret solvent. ...

    http://www.alchemylife.org/Pages/Phi...piritWine.html

    regard alfr
    Last edited by alfr; 1 Day Ago at 02:00 AM.

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