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Thread: The Dry Path of Alchemy

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    There will come a point in your investigations where you will (painfully, at your own expense of time and money, as it happened to countless other seekers throughout history) realize that you can't make either the Stone or the secret solvent with "only one thing" (in the literal sense that expression MALICIOUSLY wants to fool you into thinking) and also that identifying the correct substances (notice the PLURAL) to work with is in fact crucial and not some "triviality" subordinated to the "modus operandi".
    You are probably right. I'm already diverting some future time to the procurement of certain substances that I believe important, and I have the means at my property to make them using only a little gas and time while I'm chopping trees. At the moment I haven't ruled out certain "impurities" as being important.

    I don't want you to think I'm ignoring you JDP, I really am not. I see merit to your ideas, and when I started this path, I was foolish enough to think that a "pure magestry" of the plant kingdom would have to come from not only one species, but from an individual. It was a romantic idea, but not very practical, unless you have something that will extract it fully in one step, otherwise there isn't enough "quintessence" in most of God's creations to survive the pouring and grinding and transferring from pot to pot.

    BUT. I'm a humble seeker, and at the moment I need to expand my understanding of purifying things, and being able to identify the "right" things to purify. Every fractional step results in two or more products, even in my simple spagyric identities. That's why I post about what might seem to be random chemical curiosities sometimes. The processes I accumulate and experience, at least as I believe, are helping. And so far I've only broken a couple pieces of glassware, most of them easily replaced (random jars and such from food items). If I start going off about "having the solution" but needing some expensive equipment, I hope you're still here to slap me with a dose of reason. I don't plan on buying a bunch of gold and dissolving it to make gold, that's for sure, though I can spare a scrap sheet of gold leaf for curiosity.

    I do think it's interesting to note, however, that sometimes wide ranging substances AND methods can produce the same chemical substances, possibly alchemical substances as well. I also think I have a lot of techniques that still need working on, and if nothing else, my experimentation with plant material makes plenty of stuff that is helpful to me now. My tinctures and concoctions thus far have worked well for me, and they are my little prizes as I continue to investigate the works. Hopefully, when I'm ready to start with metals, I'll have a much better idea of how to interpret the texts and how to work for fruitful results every step along the way, to offset the perpetual failures that come with pursuing the stone.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    Nice "philosophical" fairy tale. Too bad that empirical reality is very different from such speculative fantasies and the correct matters to work with are of crucial importance to be able to prepare the secret solvent of alchemy.
    Analyze every Path in alchemy and you will learn that every solvent is derived from the starting matters.

    All vegetable paths are using solvents derived from either fermentation (alcohol), calcination (Alkali) or cold pressing (oils) the starting matter. If your vegetable matter was grapes then you will end up with spirit of wine, tartar and wine acid.

    In Lead Acetate path the solvents are derived from lead and acetic acid resulting in acetone and red oil.

    In the wet Antimony path the solvent is made from antimony and mercuric chloride resulting in butter of antimony.

    In the dry antimony path green lion is extracted from antimony regulus with the help from salts used used in the process. Canseliet extracted the green lion from antimony with nitre and others do it with so-called golden salts.
    Last edited by True Initiate; 01-15-2018 at 11:36 AM.
    Formerly known as True Puffer

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by True Initiate View Post
    Analyze every Path in alchemy and you will learn that every solvent is derived from the starting matters.

    All vegetable paths are using solvents derived from either fermentation (alcohol), calcination (Alkali) or cold pressing (oils) the starting matter. If your vegetable matter was grapes then you will end up with spirit of wine, tartar and wine acid.

    In Lead Acetate path the solvents are derived from lead and acetic acid resulting in acetone and red oil.

    In the wet Antimony path the solvent is made from antimony and mercuric chloride resulting in butter of antimony.

    In the dry antimony path green lion is extracted from antimony regulus with the help from salts used used in the process. Canseliet extracted the green lion from antimony with nitre and others do it with so-called golden salts.
    You seem to strangely overlook the fact that these "paths" are no such thing but simply blind and failed attempts by "puffers" to make the Stone. No genuine "path" (and there's only a comparative handful of those) can work without THE secret solvent of alchemy, which can only be made from the correct substances.

  4. #44
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    Those paths came from masters such as Fulcanelli, Canseliet, Urbigerus and others.
    Formerly known as True Puffer

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by True Initiate View Post
    Those paths came from masters such as Fulcanelli, Canseliet, Urbigerus and others.
    I wouldn't consider the so called "modern masters" as those ones who could had
    been successful, but I like definitely to exclude Baro Urbigerus from those ones

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by True Initiate View Post
    Those paths came from masters such as Fulcanelli, Canseliet, Urbigerus and others.
    Says who? Canseliet was not any "master" of alchemy, he never succeeded in making the Stone with his antimonial ideas. Fulcanelli clearly talks about the absolute necessity of the secret solvent (notice the singular) in alchemy, he does not condone any such great multiplicity of "paths" working with all manner of different matters and solvents. Urbigerus writes in a mostly obscure manner that makes it very difficult for his would-be interpreters to know what substances he was working with.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by True Initiate View Post
    Analyze every Path in alchemy and you will learn that every solvent is derived from the starting matters.

    All vegetable paths are using solvents derived from either fermentation (alcohol), calcination (Alkali) or cold pressing (oils) the starting matter. If your vegetable matter was grapes then you will end up with spirit of wine, tartar and wine acid.

    In Lead Acetate path the solvents are derived from lead and acetic acid resulting in acetone and red oil.

    In the wet Antimony path the solvent is made from antimony and mercuric chloride resulting in butter of antimony.

    In the dry antimony path green lion is extracted from antimony regulus with the help from salts used used in the process. Canseliet extracted the green lion from antimony with nitre and others do it with so-called golden salts.
    Your kind of making his point in a way. These paths (save the plants) are all material + something else (solvents, acids, salts). Why is it so hard to make the leap that a special "something else" would be required for the opus magnus? I might be overlooking something here as to where these other things are derived from, but in any case, some kind of solvent needs to be prepared ahead of time, except plants where theoretically the solvent can be extracted from them, but even so the addition of water/yeast is the most usual method, because the water content in the plant is low enough to warrant addition. Yeast and bacteria found on the leaves or seeds can fuel the digestive process, but it takes a lot of extra time and a little luck.

    I'm not going to state a case on who's right or wrong, I haven't been in any of those people's labs, and it's impossible to know who is some random author making derivative works from earlier writings vs who actually made a transmutation with 100% certainty. Certainly there is a way that "feels" natural, but that could be subjective. Also where stuff comes from.

    Nitre can be worked out of the air with a long laborious process, it can be collected or produced from the earth and waste products. It can certainly be considered natural for any mineral process as the "water that doesn't wet the hands," but it could also be considered foreign to most extracted ores.

    In the end it's all a matter of trying stuff and seeing what works. I'd be a fan of people posting some of their failures on the forums with thoughts and guidance. That might be much more productive than the constant back and forth. Some of these threads already exist, but they focus more on successes. Learning from each others failures could be equally, if not more productive.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon's Tail View Post
    Your kind of making his point in a way. These paths (save the plants) are all material + something else (solvents, acids, salts). Why is it so hard to make the leap that a special "something else" would be required for the opus magnus?
    That special something could lie in the special state of matter. A good illustration comes from Roger Caro in his cinnabar path:



    In the first picture we see that vapours in the flask are plasmatized. How could this be if KOH is used as a catalyst? Hard to imagine that KOH has the strength to turn sulphur vapour into the plasma state. There is something special about that flask...
    Formerly known as True Puffer

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon's Tail View Post
    I'd be a fan of people posting some of their failures on the forums with thoughts and guidance. That might be much more productive than the constant back and forth. Some of these threads already exist, but they focus more on successes. Learning from each others failures could be equally, if not more productive.
    Me too, actually. Feel free to start a new thread on the topic
    Art is Nature in the flask; Nature is a vial thing.

  10. #50
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    I have a doubt. If we follow the dry path of antimony and end up with Green Lion after following the appropriate process. The next step involves Green Lion devouring the Sun.

    The problem here is the Sun does not like high temperatures. How do you resolve this problem?

    While in the wet path with gentle temperatures, this is a non issue.

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