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Thread: The Secret Solvent

  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    Well for me the endless enigma continues. The regeneration of matter, incredible.

    I'm still trying to understand whether lime is useful as is or needs a vinegar wash first.

    EDIT!! Wooow.. It is the principals because even in these processes, we see that inside the earth this process is happening on a grand scale with many different Salts. Glorious is the Work of the Elohim (Mother/Father).
    Words such as 'vinegar' and 'lime' are epithets used to describe the varying states of our Matter.

    The enigma dissipates when it is realized and understood that these words signify these Principles you mentioned above.

    Sons of the Art were the intended audience of the Masters, not common people. These words are used as blinds to deceive the "unworthy".

    Free yourself from the labyrinth, friend! Even the small selection I posted from Boerhaave uses decknamen to describe the qualities and characteristics of the substance being described.

    See: "How To Read Alchemy Texts"

  2. #112
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    I'm sorry, when I talk to the masters, I assume that they know that I do not refer to common lime, nor to common vinegar.
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

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    For those who failed to read the description posted earlier because it's "hard to read", here it is in plain-text...



    "A New Method Of Chemistry" by Herman Boerhaave, 1753


    Upon carefully considering what is above delivered, is should seem as if all chemical solutions, except a few which are merely mechanical, are the effect of a latent attraction, and repulsion, betwixt the parts of the solvent and solvend; and consequently, that the whole action depends upon a certain relation betwixt these two. And hence it follows, from the known rules of the art, that there is no one body, either natural or artificial, which can universally dissolve all the rest. And farther, it seems impossible to assign any one physical manner, wherein the solution of all sorts of bodies should be performed indifferently. But after the elder Helmont publishing his writings, chemists had a notion of a certain secret menstruum, of which Paracelsus was said to be master; and which, after this usual manner of coining names, he called the alcahest: and this, if ever known to any man, as Helmont solemnly affirms it was, must be esteemed the most valuable discovery ever yet made in chemistry; or any other art; as being greater consequence, and more to be desired than the philosopher's stone; as, by means of this alcahest, the most effectual remedies, and the greatest opulency might easily be procured. This was the judicious opinion of Mr. Boyle, who in vain employed the greatest pains and skill to find it out; but yet, in his judgment, he scarce seems to have believed there ever was such a thing. Many eminent chemists have wrote largely upon this menstruum, after Helmont, as of a thing they knew. Impostors have made their advantage of it, and tricked those out of their money who were eager to learn the secret; whilst the prudent have remained in doubt whilst the prudent have remained in doubt, without speaking definitively about it. This has determined me to give a faithful historical narration of the matter as it stands, so far as I can learn its history from the writings of those who have treated upon the subject; in order at least to discover the sentiments of such among them, who declare they have possessed and used it. But, I find, that all the later authors have only copied from Helmont upon the subject. As to what Paracelsus says of the alcahest, no one could have thence thought of such a thing, if Helmont had not intimated that a mystery was concealed under so quaint a term. And as I myself do not possess the secret, all that I can possibly do is only, by strict examination, and exact comparison of these writers, clearly to explain the matter, so far as I could discover it in them; for if they knew such a thing, and designed that a careful reader should find it in their writings, I cannot think of a better way than this for coming at it. Whoever, therefore, would undertake the task of preparing such a menstruum should know upon what materials, with what instruments, and in what way to operate, that his labour may not be lost. But here it is of the last consequence to prevent being imposed upon by the tricks of strolling alchemists; who, with their importunate pretenses, and insinuating address, promise they know not what. These vagabond alchemists may easily be detected by any one who understands the doctrine of Paracelsus and Helmont; which has often been of great assistance to me, when I had such noisy, ignorant pretenders to deal with. Let us therefore examine the matter with care. The word alcahest is mentioned by no writer, not even among the chemists, before Paracelcus; who, so far as I can find, mentions it only in the following passage, viz. "The liquor alcahest has a great effect upon the the liver, so as to fortify and invigorate it, prevent the dropsy and all diseases which happen to that part. Its process is, to resolve it, after it is coagulated, and then coagulate it into a transmuted form; as its process of coagulating and resolving shows. Then if it conquers it’s like, it becomes a medicine exceeding all others for the liver: and though the liver were consumed, this liquor serves instead of the whole liver, as well as if that part had not been consumed. Wherefore, all those who practice physic, should know how to prepare the alcahest, in order to cure numerous distempers arising from the liver." Paracelsus, therefore, has here only used the word twice, and does not use it in any other place; as I have found by carefully examining all his works. Whence no one would have had any farther thoughts upon this subject, if it were not for Helmont's subsequent interpretation.

    The origin also of this new term, coined by Paracelsus, has been enquired into: and, as his manner was to disguise the words he used, by transposing the letters thereof, some have imagined he here practiced the same art; and thus sometimes also, by joining the initial letters of words, he has formed such as were unheard-of before: so when he means to mention tartar, as a remedy to open the spleen, he calls it sutratar. Again, when he directs saffron, (which, on account of its yellow colour, being called aroma philosophorum,) in diseased of the kidneys, he calls it aroph: and hence some have thought, that alcahest signified the same as alkali est, as if its basis were and alkali, saturated with a proper acid. Others have imagined, it was the was called alcahest from Saliz-geist, or the spirit of salt; as supposing the alcahest the same as Ciculatum, and prepared from sea-salt, coagulated the alcahest and again coagulated into transmuted form. There are others who suspect it is called alcahest, in allusion to algeist, that is perfect spirit, made by coagulation, resolution, and a second coagulation; which agrees with the opinion of Faber, who takes it for a pure mercurial or metallic spirit, so united to its proper body, as thence to become one inseparable and indestructible substance. But, as we can find no certainty from etymology, let us pass on to the synonymous words; and try if any light can be gained by comparing them together.

    Paracelsus has given us no synonyms, that I can find, to the alcahest; but Helmont a considerable number: and indeed, we have no assistance in this affair but from Helmont, who professes the alcahest was given him. Helmont, therefore, first calls it simply water, and says, he "knew a water, which he did not drink proper to discover, by any means whereof all vegetables might be transmuted into a liquor, capable of being distilled, without leaving any feces behind. He declares, he put equal quantities of a certain water and charcoal into a glass, which he hermetically sealed, and set to digest in a bath-heat." In this chapter, he calls the menstruum a thicker water; and says, that in the first chapter of the second book of the Maccabees, mention is made of a thick water, which was perpetual fire, and perhaps not unlike his water. In another place, he calls it a dissolving water; and says, the liquor alcahest is an immutable, dissolving water. He comes nearer to the purpose, when he calls it by a compound word, ignis-aqua, fire-water. Where, giving an allegorical account how he came by his knowledge; he pretends he received a phial, in which was the single term ignis-aqua, a perfectly simple, singular, undeclinable, immutable, and immortal word. He also calls it a latex, or clear water, reduced to the minutest possible atoms. He frequently calls it a liquor. He asserts, that by applying the liquor alcahest of Paracelsus, all bodies may be readily converted into water; and that, by the infernal fire, which is the liquor alcahest of Paracelsus, it may be known how much of another luminary a vegetable possesses. He also calls it a dissolving liquor. All which seems to intimate, that this secret may exist in a moist liquid form, like water.

    In another place, he uses ignis Gehenna, or infernal fire, as synonymous; saying expressly, by the infernal fire, which is the liquor alcahest or Paracelsus. And again, in another place, native sand resists both art and nature, and can by no means be resolved, except by the artificial infernal fire alone; which artificial fire converts sand to salt. If Helmont therefore follows Paracelsus in the use of this word, we may thence discover what the word alcahest is; because Paracelsus has wrote expressly of this infernal fire. But more of this, when we come to treat of the alcahest it self.

    Next, Helmont says, it is the highest and most successful of all salts; having obtained the utmost degree of purity and subtilty possible in nature. And hence he seems to call it the ens primum of salts, the sal circulatum, and the sal circulatum of Paracelsus. And hence the circulatum majus, the sal circulatum, the sal circulatus, and the sal circulatus Paracelsi, of which he treats in his book de renovatione Etc. restauratione. Could we therefore here depend upon the sincerity and fidelity of Helmont, we might, from these synonymous words, and the writings of Paracelsus, attempt to discover this wonderful menstruum. But, before we enter upon the work, we must consider the origin of the alcahest: and this, we are told, is no where to be found spontaneous in nature: because, as Helmont says, nature has it not; and expressly asserts, that a part of earth may be homogeneously reduced to water by art; at the same time strongly denying it can ever be done by nature alone; nature having no agent capable of reducing true earth to salt and water. Nor can it be produced, except by chemistry alone; which alone hath found a clear water, that cannot be transmuted, and is reduced to the minutest particles possible in nature; though not by vulgar chemistry, but by the labour of knowledge; and this as its ultimate matter-piece, as he expressly declares, repeating the word, "thus at length, thus at length, I say, chemistry prepares an universal solvent, as its ultimate effort". And again, there is not in all chemistry a more difficult process than that for preparing the alcahest; nor a more operose thing in all chemistry; it being not obtainable by reading or meditation; but by plenitude of science, doubly confirmed, is a knowledge of this operation to be acquired: whence it is very seldom given to any one. This liquor, therefore, being of a most tedious preparation, cannot be compassed by the human understanding, though a person is skilled in the art; unless the Most Hight should, by a special gift, put him in possession of it; as chosen for the purpose, by a particular privilege, to enjoy it: God alone being the dispenser of it, for reasons known to the adept. From the origin of the alcahest, here delivered by the author, it is plain how weakly they err, who fancy they can make it with ease: such pretenders at once betray their ignorance, and falsify their own tumid pretensions. Nor let them think to screen themselves, by pretending there are many alcahests: for Helmont flatly contradicts them, by affirming, that as, in all nature, there is only one fire; so likewise there is but one only liquor which dissolves all solids into their first matter, without suffering any change itself, or diminution of its virtues, as the adepts well know, and attest. And by means of this doctrine it is, that I have, with safety to my self, been able to keep off numerous pretenders to science; sanguine in hopes, and abounding in promises, but often probing deceitful, faithless impostors: for, after asking them a question or two, I soon found, by their answers, how little they understood of the subject they so varnished over with words.

    Let us next consider the stupendous effects ascribed to this wonderful secret. And first, as a menstruum, it is said to exert and effectual power in dissolving all the known sensible bodies, of what kind forever; even gold and mercury, upon which no other substance can intimately act. for thus says Helmont: "Our mechanical art has shown me, the every substance, as sulphur, Etc. may be transmuted into an actual salt, equal in weight to the body which affords it: and I know how to reduce plants, flesh, fish, bone, and every thing of the like kind, into their three pure principles. But metals, on account of the equal commixture of their feed, are very difficulty reduced to salt; so likewise is sand: for sand, or original earth, resists both nature and art; and will not quit its primitive constancy, by the power of either: and it is only by means of the artificial, infernal fire, that sand turns to salt, and at length to water. Again, the alcahest of Paracelsus transmutes all the natural bodies, by subtilizing them. And elsewhere, all bodies are easily reduced to water, by means of Paracelsus's liquor alcahest; even such as otherwise cannot be resolved into their three principles: and, by its means, all vegetables, even charcoal made of oak, are changed into liquor, that leaves no feces behind, upon distillation: for one and the same liquor alcahest, perfectly reduces all the tangible bodies of the whole universe, into their original life. And thus it likewise acts upon all poisons. It dissolves all things, except itself, as hot water dissolves snow: even oil, and spirit of wine; cedar-wood; all the kinds of elixir proprietatis; the ludus of Paracelsus; mercury; and even gold itself, which cannot otherwise be radically reduced into its component principles, by any solvent whatever; as it is much easier to make gold than to destroy it, according to the unanimous consent of philosophers."

    Let us next consider the manner wherein the alcahest exerts its efficacy upon its subjects. Its power, we find, is always increased by fire; though only a small degree thereof is required in digesting, distilling, or cohobating: for, a coal of oak and the alcahest being put together, in equal quantities, and the containing glass Hermetically sealed; the solution was performed in three days time, by digesting in a bath-heat. The sal circulatum by bare digestion, wonderfully changes all oil, and spirit of wine. The alcahest being put to an equal weight of cedar-wood, reduced to chips; and the glass Hermetically sealed; the whole substance of the wood was, with a warm digestion, for a week, changed to a milky liquor. Sometimes, also, the business performed by a single distillation; for, the liquor alcahest being once distilled from common mercury, leaves it behind, coagulated and reducible to powder; but neither increases nor diminishes its weight: and this it does in a quarter of an hour. But in other cases, cohobation is required before the desired effect can be obtained; for, bodies turned into salt of equal weight respectively, are sometimes to be cohobated with the sal circulatum of Paracelsus, before they disposit all their fixity: especially metals, and principally gold, by reason of the perfectly equable commixture of their feed. But otherwise, a single distillation of the alcahest, from the ludus or cevilla of Paraceulsus; being a stone found at the bottom of the Scheld near Aniwerp; will in two hours convert the whole stone into salt of the same weight. Noe, do I find any other way of applying this universal solvent; not that a greater force of fire is required: it may therefore dissolve all bodies, by any means of a gentle agitation of its own parts, occasioned by fire; for the alcahest may be distilled with the second degree of heat of a sand-furnace; and does not rise with the tepid warmth of a bath. There has been nothing in all nature, hitherto observed or related, more surprising than the physical change which these authors attribute to the action of the menstruum; as it at once changes the whole body of the subject into a different mass, without the least alteration of weight in the operation. The mass, after being thus changed, seems always to appear either in a fluid or saline form, though with some difference; for quick-silver, by the action of the alcahest, becomes a fixed powder, that may be ground, and resists a blast-heat, and the power of lead upon the test. And almost all other bodies are by it turned into an equal weight of salt. Oak charcoal is immediately changed by it, into two transparent liquors, different in colour and gravity. Cedar-wood is changed into a milky liquor, of the same weight, and afterwards into two kinds of oil, which by bare digestion turned to a pure salt, miscible with water. The ludus of Paracelsus, in two hours time, by a single gentle distillation, is totally converted into a salt of equal weight, which runs per deliquium in the air, and affords a fluid without any feces. From all which it is plain that this solution, though it differs at the first, yet at length always reduces the dissolved bodies to the form of a salt, soluble in water, except quicksilver; which, on account of its great purity and simplicity, cannot be turned into salt: whence, it radically resists all the possible separations of art or nature, and therefore, is perfectly indestructible. These bodies, therefore, when turned on an equal quantity of salt by the alcahest, still retain their virtues depending upon their seminal powers; which consequently are peculiar and communicable. This remarkable property is described, where he says That 'the alcahest of Paracelsus transmutes all the bodies in nature, by subtilizing them: for, when bodies are subtilized as high as possible, they at length change to another substance, but retain their seminal properties: and by means of the universal solvent all things are brought back to their Ens primum, and retain retain their native virtues; whence great and unlimited powers may be obtained.' And plainer still; 'This liquor only, can dissolve all solids into their first matter, without any diminution or alteration in itself.' Whence he recommends 'the knowledge of that homogeneous and immutable menstruum, which dissolves its subjects into their first liquid matter; whereby the internal essences of things, and their properties may be seen.'

    By this means, therefore, all these bodies turn to a saline, volatile substance, containing the presiding spirit of each subject, respectively; which saline matter may be intimately mixed with all the animal fluids, and sage to exert its peculiar virtues upon the body. Whence, such substances have been called potable; and thus, for example, by potable gold, the adepts understood gold reduced to such a saline body; though they have only boasted themselves possessed thereof, either through vain-glory, or the spirit of delusion. Gold dissolved by acids, is no more than a liquor contained unaltered particles of that metal; but the aurum potabile of the philosophers, is of equal weight with gold employed, without the admixture of any menstruum, and, only the pure, first matter, or ens primum of the gold itself. The most extraordinary thing belonging to the alcahest, is its being capable of dissolving bodies, without mixing itself among them; but, remaining perfectly separate from all their particles, without increasing or diminishing the weight of the substance dissolved; as plainly appears hence, that oak-coal was, with a bath-heat, dissolved by into two distinct liquors of different colours and properties, and thus came over by distillation, leaving the solvent liquor behind, of the same weight as at first: for, he found no body, whereto the alcahest would unite; being itself a pure, subtile substance, reduced to the smallest possible particles; and, therefore incapable of all fermentation and admixture; so that it produces its effect by a bare external action, and not concreting with the body it changes: as, the purest fire acts upon its objects; or, as hot water dissolves ice. For this liquor leaves no part of itself mixed with the body dissolved.

    Hence, the alcahest appears to have two extraordinary properties, which respect to all other menstruums, viz. That it does not act by attraction, or repulsion, but entirely by a certain mechanical force; contrary to all other of the known menstruum, unless perhaps, we except fire. That it constantly preserves all the native virtues of the bodies it dissolves; and yet, when it resolves poisons it deprives them of their virulence, or noxious quality, and endows them with the highest medicinal virtues, by reducing them into their first matter; which is extremely difficult to understand.

    When the alcahest has thus reduced all bodies into their saline and volatile ens primum, so as to retain their respective native virtues; if the subjects b farther urged, by the action of the same solvent, they lose their saline nature, and all their proper seminal virtue: whence, all these different subjects are reduced to the same indolent, scentless, insipid, simple, elementary water: so that, by applying this solvent too long, the former excellent productions are destroyed. From hence, at the same time, it appears that water must thus be the ultimate manner of all tangible bodies; the alcahest itself being unable to act any farther upon this water: which, however, being again impregnated with what feed forever, may thus pass into any new kind of body.

    The author expresses himself thus: ' All bodies, we see, are transmutable into an actual salt, equal in weight to the original subject; which salt being several times cohabated with the sal ciculatum of Paracelsus, loses all its fixedness, and transmutes into a liquor, which at length becomes insipid water, equi-ponderant to the salt that afforded it. Native sand turns to salt, and at length to water, by means of artificial, infernal fire, and by no other. I know water, by means whereof all vegetable are changed into a distillable liquor, without leaving any feces at the bottom of the glass; and this distilled liquor, without leaving is totally reduced, with alkalies, into insipid elementary water. Oak-coal converted into two liquors by the alcahest, rises by distillation, with the admixture of a little chalk, nearly of its original weight; and has all the properties of rain-water: and, thus all things become so volatile, as to rise with a bath-heat; leaving the alcahest behind at the bottom.'

    It appears extremely strange, that this menstruum, which has such wonderful effects upon all sorts of bodies, should never be in the least diminished, altered, or impaired by them: in which respect it truly resembles fire; whereto it may, therefore, justly be compared. Thus the author clearly says, that, it acts upon all the sublunary bodies, without being acted upon. And when it had so wonderfully dissolved the oak-coal, it remained at the bottom, still of the same weight and virtue. Accordingly, no transmutation of the alcahest is to be expected; because there is no other body it can join or ferment with: whence, it never dies. With its utmost action, therefore, it reduces all tangible bodies into a middle life; without suffering any change or diminution of its virtues. It is, therefore, immutable and immortal. It is the only substance not altered by action. It acts, therefore, without suffering re-action, or being itself weakened. For, it is an homogeneous, and immutable dissolvent. And remains numerically the same in weight and virtue; as well after being a thousand times employed, as after being but once used.

    It is farther to be observed of this menstruum, that it has a wonderful degree of fixedness, or volatility, in the fire: for, after it has rendered all bodies, even those of the most fixed kind, so volatile as that they may be distilled over with a bath-heat; yet itself does not rise with them, but remain fixed at the bottom. At the same time, the alcahest is so volatile, as with the second degree of heat in a sand-furnace, to rise by distillation, along with the bodies it had dissolved. Whence, it may be drawn off from common mercury, thus fixed, and coagulated. And from hence, we have the exact limitation of the small degree of heat, wherein the full power of the alcahest is exerted upon all the bodies in nature.

    We must farther observe, that though the alcahest be inseparable by all other bodies, and ought never to be impaired; yet there is one substance in nature, wherewith it may unite. This plainly appears from considering the following passage of the author. 'Chemistry is anxious to find a body of so great purity, as not to be dissipated or corrupted; and at length the art was astonished upon discovering an aqueous liquor, which being reduced to the minutest atoms possible in nature, would not unite with any ferment; whence, its transmutation was despaired of, as not finding a body more noble than itself, wherewith to join: but, the labour of philosophy made an anomalous thing in nature, which without mixing with any ferment, rose different from itself. This serpent biting itself, recovered from the poison; and was, thence, immortal.'

    Whence, we feel, that there was a certain conjunction of two things, however different they might be. This appears more plainly, and distinctly where he says, that one and the same liquor alcahest, perfectly reduces all the tangible bodies of the universe, into their first life, without suffering any change itself, or loss of virtue; being only subdued and changed by its equal. In another place he comes nearer to the point, where he says, that, mercury freed from its original sulphur cleaving to its innermost part, is immutable in the fire, and immediately consumed all other feeds, except its equal.

    Thus, I have given a faithful account of the alcahest, upon the credit of Helmont; and do not remember, that I have any where else read of such a thing; which is not spoke of by ancient philosophers, physicians, or other chemists, though it be the most desirable particular in all physics. It will, therefore, be expected I should say somewhat of the matter it is to be made from. And, I must own that I have tried an incredible variety of experiments tot his purpose; and have sometimes repented of and detested the labour.

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmuldvich View Post
    It appears extremely strange, that this menstruum, which has such wonderful effects upon all sorts of bodies, should never be in the least diminished, altered, or impaired by them: in which respect it truly resembles fire; whereto it may, therefore, justly be compared. Thus the author clearly says, that, it acts upon all the sublunary bodies, without being acted upon. And when it had so wonderfully dissolved the oak-coal, it remained at the bottom, still of the same weight and virtue. Accordingly, no transmutation of the alcahest is to be expected; because there is no other body it can join or ferment with: whence, it never dies. With its utmost action, therefore, it reduces all tangible bodies into a middle life; without suffering any change or diminution of its virtues. It is, therefore, immutable and immortal. It is the only substance not altered by action. It acts, therefore, without suffering re-action, or being itself weakened. For, it is an homogeneous, and immutable dissolvent. And remains numerically the same in weight and virtue; as well after being a thousand times employed, as after being but once used.
    That already says it all: the "alkahest" of Helmont was MOST CERTAINLY NOT the secret solvent/water of the alchemists. The above statements are quite the opposite of what the alchemists state about their "water", which eventually ends up "coagulating" with the metallic matter it dissolved and forming AN INTEGRAL PART OF THE MASS OF THE STONE ITSELF. One only has to read descriptions by actual alchemists to plainly see this RADICAL difference between both solvents. One example (out of the tons that can be found), taken from Artephius:

    (7) Now this water is a certain middle substance, clear as fine silver, which ought to receive the tinctures of sol and luna, so as they may be congealed, and changed into a white and living earth. For this water needs the perfect bodies, that with them after the dissolution, it may be congealed, fixed, and coagulated into a white earth. But if this solution is also their coagulation, for they have one and the same operation, because one is not dissolved, but the other is congealed, nor is there any other water which can dissolve the bodies, but that which abideth with them in the matter and the form. It cannot be permanent unless it be of the nature of other bodies, that they may be made one. When therefore you see the water coagulate itself with the bodies that be dissolved therein; be assured that thy knowledge, way of working, and the work itself are true and philosophic, and that you have done rightly according to art.

    Conclusion: whatever is it that Helmont discovered (if it isn't actually just an empty boast of his, because it doesn't look like any of his followers had much success in replicating Helmont's claims regarding this "alkahest") was some sort of unusual chymical solvent, but certainly NOT that of the alchemists. The properties of both COULD NOT BE MORE OPPOSED!
    Last edited by JDP; 3 Weeks Ago at 03:54 PM.

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    Taken from Artephius:

    (7) Now this water is a certain middle substance, clear as fine silver, which ought to receive the tinctures of sol and luna, so as they may be congealed, and changed into a white and living earth. For this water needs the perfect bodies, that with them after the dissolution, it may be congealed, fixed, and coagulated into a white earth. But if this solution is also their coagulation, for they have one and the same operation, because one is not dissolved, but the other is congealed, nor is there any other water which can dissolve the bodies, but that which abideth with them in the matter and the form. It cannot be permanent unless it be of the nature of other bodies, that they may be made one. When therefore you see the water coagulate itself with the bodies that be dissolved therein; be assured that thy knowledge, way of working, and the work itself are true and philosophic, and that you have done rightly according to art.

    Do you not understand what these perfect Bodies are, JDP...?

    The quote is not speaking of vulgar metals, but rather speaking of our Sol and our Luna. These are not elemental gold and elemental silver as used in the passage you provided.

    You conveniently highlighted the part for us that makes this clear: "nor is there any other water which can dissolve the bodies, but that which abideth with them in the matter and the form"

    Where in the quote does it say anything about being permanently united to all bodies?

    Artephius was speaking Philosophically. When you learn how to read Alchemy texts this will be more clear.

    Excellent quote! Thank you for posting!

  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmuldvich View Post
    Do you not understand what these perfect Bodies are, JDP...?

    The quote is not speaking of vulgar metals, but rather speaking of our Sol and our Luna. These are not elemental gold and elemental silver as used in the passage you provided.

    You conveniently highlighted the part for us that makes this clear: "nor is there any other water which can dissolve the bodies, but that which abideth with them in the matter and the form"

    Where in the quote does it say anything about being permanently united to all bodies?

    Artephius was speaking Philosophically. When you learn how to read Alchemy texts this will be more clear.

    Excellent quote! Thank you for posting!
    That's because Artephius thought that only two metals worked (and yes, whatever his "Sol" was, it is obviously a metal since he mentions it being hammered into thin plates before being submitted to the action of the secret solvent. Metals are the only malleable bodies. Malleability was in fact one of the chief distinguishing factors between metals and all other mineral substances.) Other alchemists accepted more metallic bodies as being subjects to alchemical treatment with the secret solvent. The important thing here is that whether it is only two or many more metallic bodies, the fact is that the secret solvent PERMANENTLY UNITES with their "tinctures/sulphurs/souls" (which then together will eventually form either the Stone or a "particular" alchemical "tincture"), while the "alkahest" of Helmont DOES NOT UNITE WITH ANYTHING IT DISSOLVES. Again, the difference is exceedingly clear between the actions of both solvents.

    You should re-read what some of your very own quoted sources say in the "learn how to read Alchemy texts" since they will show you that the alchemists relied heavily on "decknamen" as their favorite means of concealment, specially when it comes to the preparation of the secret solvent. It is not, as you seem to imagine, that we should indiscriminately not take everything they say literally (which, by the way, anyone can easily employ to dismantle your very own favorite "one matter only" theory: "When they speak most clearly, that's when they are deceiving you the most!" See how easy it is to arbitrarily apply your very own tactic to try to invalidate all the statements that go against your theory?) A heck of a lot of what they say is to be taken quite literally, since it is not very revealing to the average inexperienced Joe (like, for example, color changes/sequences, which by themselves, without any other hints/clues, will not be very revealing to most people.) When they do "lie" the most is when it comes to giving information about the substances to be used, specially in the making of the secret solvent/water (and for good reason: the whole of alchemy depends on it! A whole bunch of alchemists are so confident that you will not succeed without it that they hardly make any attempts at concealment of anything else in the entire process, except this initial and crucial part.) That's when the heavy use & abuse of "decknamen" and obscure, vague and/or contradictory statements regarding the substances to be used kicks in in most alchemical texts.

    PS- notice also the following passage:

    If therefore you put into this water, leaves, filings, or calx of any metal, and set it in a gentle heat for a time, the whole will be dissolved, and converted into a viscous water, or white oil as aforesaid.

    Notice that Artephius is aware that other metals are also subject to alchemical treatment with the secret solvent, but he still persists in commanding to use "Sol" or "Luna". That is because Artephius only seems to be interested in making the Stone and does not seem to care for any other alchemical "tinctures", and he is convinced that only two metallic bodies will work for this purpose. Like I said, some alchemists were more restrictive than others regarding how many metals could be used to make the Stone.
    Last edited by JDP; 3 Weeks Ago at 04:02 PM.

  7. #117
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    Sounds to me as if the secret solvent must be some kind of alloy of two or more metals (and maybe some other material too). The metals must be mixed in a special ratio to get an alloy with a melting point slightly above room temperature. But if it would be like that, other problems would still persist.

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florius Frammel View Post
    Sounds to me as if the secret solvent must be some kind of alloy of two or more metals (and maybe some other material too). The metals must be mixed in a special ratio to get an alloy with a melting point slightly above room temperature. But if it would be like that, other problems would still persist.
    If you read the descriptions of its preparation (but with the names of the substances involved veiled under "decknamen", and/or vaguely/confusedly/contradictorily referred to, so as to NOT make it easy to figure out what they actually are), it's obvious that metals alone simply won't cut it. They never produce any such "water", or "oil", or "fat/butter/wax", or "salt" on their own (the secret solvent can take this variety of forms, depending on certain factors and variations in its preparation), not even mixed with mercury (which is really just another metal, like all others, only it happens to be liquid at room temperature and more volatile.) Minerals & metals are "too dry" (as some writers liked to put it) to be able to afford the secret solvent on their own.

    Note: some mineral substances or their combinations CAN certainly produce byproducts with salty ("vitriols", for example), liquid ("spirit of salt", for example) and even "oily" ("oil of vitriol", for example) or "buttery" ("butter of antimony", for example) appearances, BUT they do NOT have the properties of the secret solvent. Some of these purely mineral byproducts ARE useful or even essential in chymical transmutation processes, though.

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    You mentioned a text from an arab or persian writer in an other thread, who made a list of substances together with their decknamen. I forgot the name of the author and text, but I guess it must have been Al-Rhazi or Jabbir ibn Hayyan. Is that were you have the names of the substances from?

  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florius Frammel View Post
    You mentioned a text from an arab or persian writer in an other thread, who made a list of substances together with their decknamen. I forgot the name of the author and text, but I guess it must have been Al-Rhazi or Jabbir ibn Hayyan. Is that were you have the names of the substances from?
    Maybe you are referring to al-Razi's classification of natural substances? He did not employ "decknamen" on that one, as his intention in this case was not to hide anything from the general public but to provide a system of classification that others could also use. He classified natural substances with their real, common names (as used in his times.) No need for "decknamen" here since he was not dealing with the subject of making the Stone.

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