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Thread: Understanding

  1. #1
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    Understanding

    I love reading. I love writing. But it seems to me:

    1. authors write something with a certain message/meaning, and then quite often in interviews they comment that their initial point is always lost on the reader
    2. I experience this myself constantly, and I assume others do to
    3. a certain word is used to try and convey meaning, but that word NEVER has THAT meaning for someone else
    4. language is obstructing understanding
    5. perhaps that is why psychedelics are so powerful, because it is a visual language that you see... a telepathic language that you simply understand...

    No questions. No answers.

    Simply a statement.

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.


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    Hi, Awani...
    It seems to me, that the disadvantage, it is that the experience itself is personal and non transferable.

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    Agree with all except #4, without language, we wouldn't be having this discussion, nor would we be able to draw on the experience of others at all.

    For 1,2,3, I'm right on board with you. I have countless times rearranged something because of beta readers or my editor missing some detail, or interpreting my words to mean something other than what I intended. I try to convey powerful emotions and complicated thoughts sometimes, and it get's lost. Having people (especially from the target audience) glance over early versions of my work and give feedback helps, but it's never a perfect process. Each person will interpret something a little different. They will "see" your world, characters, descriptions a bit different. Sometimes movies suffer from the same inability to convey something non-tangible.

    I think any kind of meditation, psychedelic, dream, etc can only be truly interpreted by the individual. You may be picking up some cosmic wavelengths, but they are delivered in a way that your mind arranges them, i.e. how YOU read the universe. Or when imagery is delivered, it is special for you and nobody else. Interpretation and understanding through your filters can lead to greater knowledge, etc. Kind of like pierre said, the experience is personal.

    Tarot cards are another example. Practitioners should get to know their decks, and their personal interpretation of the images. A snake to me might mean something than it does to you, a triangle, a plate, a fountain, they symbols are common among us with common interpretations, but each of us sees them slightly different. I can stare into a busy honeycomb for hours pondering the mysteries of the universe, but if you're allergic to bees, or terrified of them...well.

    Fundamental truths are fundamental, but they are delivered differently to each of us. Just my two coppers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon's Tail View Post
    Agree with all except #4, without language, we wouldn't be having this discussion, nor would we be able to draw on the experience of others at all.
    I have to cats that seem to communicate without a verbal word-driven language, and I communicate with them telepathically as well. It's the story of the Tower of Babel that screwed us.

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Awani View Post
    It's the story of the Tower of Babel that screwed us.
    The Universal Language is still preserved, hidden in plain sight

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon's Tail View Post

    I think any kind of meditation, psychedelic, dream, etc can only be truly interpreted by the individual...

    Tarot cards are another example.
    I agree with that DT, as I regularly consult the I-Ching and every time I do, even if reading the same text of which there are only 64, I get a different message.
    However I do believe that this is a purer language than the spoken as each gets the information as it relates to them, and this is what causes the confusion in verbal text.

    Perhaps we should all meditate before we read or converse

    Ghislain

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awani View Post
    I love reading. I love writing. But it seems to me:

    1. authors write something with a certain message/meaning, and then quite often in interviews they comment that their initial point is always lost on the reader
    2. I experience this myself constantly, and I assume others do to
    3. a certain word is used to try and convey meaning, but that word NEVER has THAT meaning for someone else
    4. language is obstructing understanding
    "At times all I would need is a single word, a simple little word of no importance, to be great, to speak in the voice of the prophets: a word of witness, a precise word, a subtle word, a word well steeped in my marrow, gone out of me, which would stand at the outer limit of my being,
    and which, for everyone else, would be nothing.
    I am the witness, I am the only witness of myself. This crust of words, these imperceptible whispered transformations of my thought, of that small part of my thought which I claim has already been formulated, and which miscarries,
    I am the only person who can measure its extent."
    I like it that you begun with writers.
    There are some self-destructive books... books that denounce themselves as being unable to communicate what they want to communicate. Artaud's "Nerve-Meter" (quoted above) is one of them.



    I believe that you mentioned the psychedelic experience can be the solution because you certainly relate psychedelics to mysticism (which is fine). So I thought of Wittgenstein and his broader idea of the "mystical experience" as something that can't be expressed by language, but language can give "hints" when it comes to communicate it to another person (or, as he said, climb the ladder of my words, then throw the ladder away and understand them).

    Anyway, since this is "alchemy forums" and not "linguistics forums", I thought that a lot of the classical alchemical literature works like that. Then again, there is a debate about it... some people believe that the alchemists were tricky and making things more complex than they are (i.e, that they could have simply written a recipe), whilst others believe that they were writing about things that can hardly be expressed by language.

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    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.


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