DMT is the Stone

[Warmheart]

I am well aware of the Siberian and Arctic Circle shamanism and the indigenous peoples of the region. Not only am I somewhat married into that "group", but I also work and are friends with - and visit - those communities... after all I live there.

So you have a lot of opportunities to dig deeper

You probably realize that in each sphere of human activity 95% of it is total garbage, and only 5% is worth something. And only 0,3% is really outstanding. These numbers aren't made up, it is reflection of 68-95-99,7 rule.

So and with modern Shamanic Tradition. 95% of its representatives have no clue what they are talking about, only 5% have an understanding, and only 0,3% actually achieved something.

Dig deeper for those 5% and 0,3%.

It is true that "illusion" is not a word they would use... they probably use "thought" or "dream"... same concept. But it is ignorant to think that indigenous cultures around the world don't have a cosmology that implies that this world is a temporary realm sprung from a dream or a thought of the Divine Mystery (or whatever they call it). I am not making it up, nor have I read it in a New Age book. I get my indigenous knowledge from indigenous people. And if that is not possible I study anthropology. You don't have to have a power greater than gods to say this world is an illusion. I don't have that power and I've said it multiple times.

Yes, this world is temporary realm, yes it is sprung from a dream (in a way). But all of it is said from the point of view of those powers, which are way beyond gods. Those teachings don't usually say that when dream is over, then all existence except that which is "Beyond" is over. To perceive and realize what is "Beyond", what is Supreme Reality - this is the last step on progress, when you already obtained godlike powers. It was much easier to obtain such powers and interact with gods in ancient times, hence we have such teachings. But mankind fell down from its former grace. Western world has myths about exile from Eden, murder of Abel, deluge and Babel - all of them describing gradual downfall of human from being godlike down to a piece of mortal flesh.

There was a specific ancient word to describe "illusion", actually it meant something entirely else: it meant "measures/dimensions". Its opposite is totally devoid of that, its opposite is basically nothing, only that which is "Beyond".

May I inquire what experiences you have had with psychedelics? And if so, what kind and in what set and setting did you do it?

I used plant of Pythian Oracles for purposes of divination (I can't right it openly here, if you are very interested, I can write it to you in PM). While it is very helping in that aspect, everything has its price. Average man has a lot of garbage in his head. Once he becomes open to external powers, all that garbage reveals itself. In case with Pythian plant, visions become muddied by that garbage, it is a whole science on itself to get rid of it.

Other aspect is that when you are using plants in this way, you are giving your body as a temporary home for the Spirit which was in the plant. You can feel it, you can feel as some power seizes your body. It means big turmoil for the energetic structure of man and might cause dysfunction of major energy channels, thus blocking your way of progress. Afterwards you might get some funny glitches and such, but they merely point that something went horribly wrong.

There is also another dangerous thing which might happen. Human's "lower spirit" isn't simple entity, it is complex entity. It consists of myriads of sub-entities, among which there are chief energies, who temporarily have power over human until some other big sub-entity replaces it. When you suffer through energy turmoil, there is a big chance that some of chief sub-entities will go out of control of "one whole spirit", and you might experience presence of someone else, even see it and talk with it. While it is possible to have visit of external entities, who talk with you and such - it is a hard labor to do so and it is achieved by totally different means.

It is quite easy to cause those sub-entities to "appear", but it is very hard to make yourself being whole again. It is totally opposite to spiritual progress and there are signs which can be used as measure of it: progress is always accompanied by Siddhis - that's when you can use your knowledge and power to make direct changes in this reality (all comes at a price though), while fake progress with sub-entities remains just that - nice visions, exotic experience and loss of power as result (even if it doesn't look like that from first glance). It also leads to a horrible death if it wasn't horrible enough. Shattered spirit will be totally shattered after its holding "vessel" is broken, each piece of it might find a new life in some defected form - some defected plant and/or some awful bug and/or some disabled child. Chance of progress to be totally wasted and undone, nullified altogether, all of it because of being deluded by those who are deluded themselves.

You don't have to listen to what I write, I am not writing it so that you changed your mind or rethought your approaches, I am merely expanding on what I wrote before and to answer your questions. I am also writing it to those, who might read this thread and is considering this approach as part of spiritual progress, to warn them about negative consequences.

[Florius Frammel]

Please allow me a short question to all of you.

There are people comparing believe systems with modern tech anologies.
Different religions/worldviews are here considered as different operating systems like Windows, Linux, MacOS,..

Then there is another level behind, or beyond that OS. Some call it BIOS, or Motherboard, or the sum of a computer's components.

Of course every supporter of a religion/worldview thinks his view is the closest possible to the "level behind".

What makes you so sure that your concept of "entities" is not just an OS as well, comparable to catholicism with all the saints for example?

[zoas23]

There are many valuable practices, most of them are not alchemy (which is not surprising).

The thread is interesting, but I don't see any relationship between DMT and the "alchemical stone"... Which is not something that makes DMT less "interesting"... But it sounds to me as stating that DMT is the true Kung-Fu, when it's obviously a different practice.

Most of the valuable/interesting/transcendental practices are not "alchemy"... Which does not make them less interesting.

Of course, it is possible to establish a resemblance between almost everything... Architecture can get connected with human psychology, as much as it would be possible to establish connections between psychology and architecture... And yet such thing doesn't mean that psychology is the true architecture and viceversa. Similarities? Probably... The same thing? Certainly not. Such fact doesn't make any of the 2 practices become worthless... Simply different.

[Awani]

Of course every supporter of a religion/worldview thinks his view is the closest possible to the "level behind".

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me I support all religions and worldview... I am not limited to one, the only thing is I try to frame it from the shamanism perspective.

What makes you so sure that your concept of "entities" is not just an OS as well, comparable to catholicism with all the saints for example?

Nothing is certain in this world, but my touch of grace by the hand of god is not an OS at all. It is my experience. That's all I can say about it.

...but I don't see any relationship between DMT and the "alchemical stone"...

That's why the thread is called DMT is the Stone.

[Awani]

So and with modern Shamanic Tradition. 95% of its representatives have no clue what they are talking about, only 5% have an understanding, and only 0,3% actually achieved something.

I go to the source when it concerns shamanism... and I go as deep as I can go as a white man... there will always be restrictions due to what I look like, which is fine considering what "white people" have done to these people.

To perceive and realize what is "Beyond", what is Supreme Reality - this is the last step on progress, when you already obtained godlike powers. It was much easier to obtain such powers and interact with gods in ancient times, hence we have such teachings. But mankind fell down from its former grace. Western world has myths about exile from Eden, murder of Abel, deluge and Babel - all of them describing gradual downfall of human from being godlike down to a piece of mortal flesh.

We can never fully "know" the Mystery. And I suspect neither can the Mystery itself.

Regarding "the Fall", that is propaganda. We never fell. We forgot.

There was a specific ancient word to describe "illusion... can't right it openly here, if you are very interested, I can write it to you in PM...

You often talk in this "can't say openly" language... I dislike that. Everything on the table or nothing. Unless it is your exact location, or something personal, there is no reason to withhold anything... it is a game of manipulation to sound "bigger" or "mysterious"...

I used plant of Pythian Oracles for purposes of divination...

This basically makes all your arguments regarding this topic moot.

I would never try and tell, for example, Andro: try and pray in this way and chant this song when you do your soul retrieval healing

Why not?

Because I have never done it myself, so what the hell do I know. I know nothing about it. I can ask dumb questions, which I do... but until I perform such feats myself I cannot say much about it.

[Seth-Ra]

So you know, I have a very horrific disease which keeps blooming. And I am still living thanks to the real stuff I am finding, I don't have luxury of finding truth in smoke, some vulgar psychology or modern science, according to which I should be long dead by now.

Here lies the crux of your problem. You have a disease, which highlights your timer in this form running out; the same thing that is true for everyone, regardless of circumstance, and because its highlighted for you, you choose to focus on combating the inevitable, exhausting yourself, wasting your time here on the pursuit of... an idea, an idea born of fear of the inevitable and the unknown (to you).

Lets say you're given 5 years to live. You spend 4 looking for a cure - find it, and thusly gained another year before your already ravaged body succumbs to inevitability. You wasted 4 out of 6 kicking and screaming against the universe like a child throwing a tantrum. If you just would truly see, you could live in the time you have, not use it to complain about the time you don't, and assume others aren't in the same boat, as if you're somehow special or different, "touched by death" and all.

Thats the problem with a lot of people - to busy not living because they are afraid of dying... a sentiment usually expressed and realized when its to late.

When I was born, I had no father, had no mother, had no family. I had nothing. I knew extreme hunger and thirst, I went through a couple attempts of suicide (one of which granted me this disease).

So, because life dealt you a rough hand (something that happens to many, if not most of the world...) you decided to be a victim, acted on that, making your highlighted timer literally of your own making, by your own choice - or better said, by your own attitude towards your surroundings.

Huh, its raining and I don't have an umbrella like some other people, guess I'll go hold up a lightning rod and yell at the sky. Shit, that lightning hurt and now I'm worse off than before - how cruel of the world.

Do you know how it feels when you struggle for your whole life and you see that you won't find even some small banal happiness because disease and death won't give you such time?

I read that like "Do you know how it feels to be entitled your whole life and think that you somehow deserve to be anywhere other than where you put yourself? My neighbor can afford a new car - why can't I?! I deserve happiness! *sigh* Guess I'll have to keep searching for it..." *fills grocery cart with alcohol*



I mean really though, you presume to know other people's situations and life stories, and act like you're in some special position of suffering (its a "new age" idea that the more oppressed and victimized you are, the more right/righteous you are, just saying. ) and that none of us can possibly understand, as if we aren't also human, with expiration dates, or suffering, or loss, or struggle... yet you perfectly demonstrate how one's attitude and approach to life, determines their outcome. Plenty have grown up in the gutters and on the streets, surrounded by hunger, thirst, the harsh elements, drug and gang violence, and rose above it to be successful millionaires, or even just happy people with nice families, with all the needs and many wants provided for themselves and their kids. They usually get there via hard work, and the right attitude. Perhaps you don't deserve the things you feel so entitled to.

Do you know how it feels when you are constantly being fed with crap

Absolutely...

Do you know how "motivating" it is to calculate your chances to be reborn as some child in Central Africa, if to assume that this "wonderful" reincarnation system actually works as people think?

You're badly hung up on the whole reincarnation thing - makes it clear you think entirely to linearly to really "grasp" the whole "time" thing... but aside from that, I have often imagined myself in such a place, and if any spark of who I am in this form remains (which is the only reason you'd care in the first place about "ending up there") - Im pretty sure I could do some good for those I'd be growing up around.

If your version of enlightenment is to become immortal in this one form, and go into secluded hiding, effectively telling the rest of the world to fuck off, except for maybe some "worthy" to find you... well that says a lot about you.
I'd rather "play the game" infinitely, be, enjoy being, no matter how, and help my fellow fractals/Self - because we are all one and we all exist together for a reason.

Yet again, personally I have nothing against smoking, psychological sessions and such. But let's not label them as P.S. or non-Duality. I know it is hard to believe, but in this age there are still people who experienced the glimpse of both and they are totally opposite to what is being discussed here. I am saying this so that honest seekers of truth wouldn't fall victims to all this deception and were seeking for real stuff.

You are not in a position to determine what is "real" vs "deception" when it comes to this topic. You are simply presuming, because you don't understand, nor have apparently experienced the topic at hand. You couldn't warn anyone if you wanted to, because you don't know.

You might think I am some rude, negative person, but in fact I am quite gentle and peaceful, and these words are caused rather by tears of daily struggle than by anger.

I don't think you're rude. You are negative, whether you realize it or not. You very well may be gentle and peaceful as well - but whether by struggle or anger, it makes no difference, your words are born of fear and are thusly the same. Ignorant, and fearful. Nothing more, nothing less.

Indeed, plants have big healing powers. That's if you don't speak about them in the aspect of this thread: by smoking them or their chemical derivatives.

Awani mostly speaks of ayahuasca, but I have not had such - though I am using the sacred acacia tree. But what I'm extracting from it, has little to do with the acacia itself; the DMT is the substance that your brain naturally produces during meditations and visions, and spiritual experiences, as well as the moment of death. It is present, not just in plants, but in animals - in all of us. We extract it from plants because its easiest, and we do so from those that have a large content of it in them (relatively speaking). Funny how the plants that have high concentrations of them, have been considered sacred for centuries. Must be a coincidence...

I missed this post... also moved most of the posts here from your DMT report... the debate regarding DMT being the stone or not should not clutter your report. IMO.

Yes, it seems many missed that post. I covered and mentioned a lot of what is being repeatedly brought up, in that post, incase anyone missed it.

I do appreciate the separation of the threads as well.
I'll also reiterate some things I said in the other one, perhaps word them better...

Always good to quote my own slogan (often not understood I think): Don’t let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

It means that:

Reality is an illusion.
But reality is also real.
Reality should not be experienced as only an illusion.
Nor should it be experienced as only real.
To do so would be delusional.

Don’t let the illusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion, could be another way to say it... but it has a different meaning.

Reality is so powerful that it can be difficult to accept the reality of the illusion, that's why I prefer to say don’t let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

Fuck. My head alway spins on that one.

Don't let the delusion of being awake confuse you regarding the lucidity of the dream. = easier way to think about it*

I like your slogan, and have for a while now. It makes sense.

There are many valuable practices, most of them are not alchemy (which is not surprising).

The thread is interesting, but I don't see any relationship between DMT and the "alchemical stone"...

DMT is a white or yellow crystalline stone in its pure form, and it oxidizes into a yellow to red (depending on concentration, I've found) oil, that dissolves in wine/alcohol, is present in every living thing, and is the chemical component of all naturally occurring (no other outside substance used) visions/spiritual interactions - and is even the key used at the moment of death, and thusly if certain "lethal" alchemical concoctions are made, can trigger the use of it in the body, as it simulates death.
It literally removes the veil and puts you before the Throne of the All/One.
How is it not the alchemical stone? lol

Of course, it is possible to establish a resemblance between almost everything... Architecture can get connected with human psychology, as much as it would be possible to establish connections between psychology and architecture... And yet such thing doesn't mean that psychology is the true architecture and viceversa. Similarities? Probably... The same thing? Certainly not. Such fact doesn't make any of the 2 practices become worthless... Simply different.

Except that we aren't comparing lumber to bio-chemical compounds... but if we were to do so, it would be more accurately represented with gingerbread.



Seems a lot of you guys are the ones screaming from the existential crisis, while some of us laugh because its a joke.

Please allow me a short question to all of you.

There are people comparing believe systems with modern tech anologies.
Different religions/worldviews are here considered as different operating systems like Windows, Linux, MacOS,..

Then there is another level behind, or beyond that OS. Some call it BIOS, or Motherboard, or the sum of a computer's components.

Of course every supporter of a religion/worldview thinks his view is the closest possible to the "level behind".

What makes you so sure that your concept of "entities" is not just an OS as well, comparable to catholicism with all the saints for example?

That is a fair question - except to the point where we aren't discussing a "religion" or a "paradigm to see the world by", but rather, ripping away those things, and seeing a singular thread of continuity in all of them, which again relates back to this single chemical compound - which is itself just the physical expression of a catalyst that allows us to 'touch' the All/One, or as Awani calls it, the Mystery.

As Ive said elsewhere, the continuity of this Thing cannot be understated, or ignored.

I used plant of Pythian Oracles for purposes of divination (I can't right it openly here, if you are very interested, I can write it to you in PM). While it is very helping in that aspect, everything has its price. Average man has a lot of garbage in his head. Once he becomes open to external powers, all that garbage reveals itself. In case with Pythian plant, visions become muddied by that garbage, it is a whole science on itself to get rid of it.

Like Awani said above, your argument on this topic is moot; comparing DMT to anything else (imo) is like comparing "yes" and "no".

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me I support all religions and worldview... I am not limited to one, the only thing is I try to frame it from the shamanism perspective.

I'm pretty much the same way, though I frame/flavor it from the alchemical stand point. There again, the singular continuity of it all, regardless of our personal preferential framework, and the fact that it does fit all of them, and has been known to all of them, and is within all of them, showcases its validity.

Nothing is certain in this world, but my touch of grace by the hand of god is not an OS at all. It is my experience. That's all I can say about it.

Therein lies the point; experience.
Everyone can armchair-philosophize and presume, and assume, all they want, about any topic. But until you've first hand experienced It (whether smoking the pure thing, drinking the brew, or subjugating the body to the extremes that causes its own production of it, which is the goal of all internal spiritual disciplines...), then you simply don't know, and won't, until you are made to. (funny thing that, inevitability.)

That's why the thread is called DMT is the Stone.

Indeed, good Sir.



~Seth-Ra

[Andro]

Everyone is hereby kindly but firmly asked to refrain from further evaluating/judging/quantifying the lives and experiences of other people.

PS: Unless they pay you for it

Thank you.

- The Management

[Andro]

Personally, I don't use exogenous catalysts. So I cannot (and will not) comment without having direct experience. I have however worked with people who are using (or have used) psychedelics, and there are "side effects", but I am in no position to quantify them. One thing I can attest to is that there is always a "price" to pay. But sometimes the merchandise appears to be worth it... So shop wisely!

About the shamanic healing work I do, after my services being publicly available for over 16 years now, I still cannot say for sure how exactly it works. It's a bit like "science", in the sense that it is better at describing than at explaining. Bottom line - it does work and people do get better. In the words of Queen: "It's a Kind of Magic". And there is more than one road to Rome.

[Warmheart]

What makes you so sure that your concept of "entities" is not just an OS as well, comparable to catholicism with all the saints for example?

It all comes down to the results. There is truth and there are real results. E.g, it either snows here right at this moment or it doesn't. If it snows but someone says that it doesn't and insists that there can be multiple truths, well, that's when we start seeing corruptions. That's when we can say, using your terms, that we can't use this OS to launch applications. You either get real results or you get error in code, which can lead to various glitches. Some people take those glitches for real results.

I go to the source when it concerns shamanism... and I go as deep as I can go as a white man... there will always be restrictions due to what I look like, which is fine considering what "white people" have done to these people.

To get extra-ordinary results, you need to put extra-ordinary efforts. Even "non-white" people have to go through a lot of trials before they will be allowed to access in deeper mysteries. But if you are sincere seeker, if you yearn for real things, if you disregard illusions and easy but fake answers which stand on your way, then Gods themselves might show you their favor and light your path.

Regarding "the Fall", that is propaganda. We never fell. We forgot.

Mankind fell. One of big examples - extremely short lifespan.

You often talk in this "can't say openly" language... I dislike that. Everything on the table or nothing. Unless it is your exact location, or something personal, there is no reason to withhold anything... it is a game of manipulation to sound "bigger" or "mysterious"...

I know what I know because I sacrificed a lot of time and money for that. I like to share and I openly share what I can, but there are things which costed me a lot. Also knowledge goes with power - when you start sharing it, your own power will start diminishing. If to make parallel with billionaire - if he will start giving away all his belongings, he will stop being billionaire.

This forum is being visited by many guests, a lot of whom belong to that kind of people whom I greatly despise. I am not some kind of charity which helps various jerks who then use your information in order to corrupt it and make as their teaching and make money off that. I passed through that stage several times and I don't want to repeat this mistake anymore. Everything that concerns details of my private practice I can share only with whom I really trust and who really knows the price of that knowledge. After all, it is you who asked me if I used anything myself and not me who said it first "I used some plant but I won't tell you details". If that wasn't the case, then I ask you to forgive me for my behavior.

It might also help you in your search, wise people might look like some good, loving elderly, but they are not charity either. Power is not public domain, it is attribute of a few. There is strict hierarchical system in place where 95% (see the rule) don't even have clue about power, 5% have some kind of access to it and only 0,3% actually have it and can apply it. If you share it with everyone, you become part of 95% with them, because you gave them away your upper hand, and now noone has upper hand anymore - that's like teaching everyone how to make gold, so then gold becomes cheap as dirt and noone can benefit from it anymore. By attempting to learn from wise people, you are about to ask for something which is more intimate than CVC code of their bank card, you are about to ask for something which is the dream of any king or oligarch, you must realize that this requires THE maximum level of trust possible between people, more so than between closest friends, wife and husband, parents and their children. It isn't even about "white", "red" or "black" people.

If you come to them with attitude that you already know how this world works, they will smoke some herb with you, smile at you, joke, nod and compliment your results, because you are a lost cause, you don't have capabilities of disciple, you don't have capability to learn because you already think that you "know the Mystery". And they will go do real things after you leave them. You might already have some good and wise person among indigenous shamans but who decided against teaching you because you took some cheap illusions for real thing.

Just please, don't take it as offense. *Friendly hug*

[Warmheart]

You are not in a position to determine what is "real" vs "deception" when it comes to this topic. You are simply presuming, because you don't understand, nor have apparently experienced the topic at hand. You couldn't warn anyone if you wanted to, because you don't know.

That's why I kept mentioning death a lot. Death is a good separator of "real" vs "deception". When you are about to get drowned, you either get some fake help and die or you get some real help and survive.

And as old teaching says: "It is too late to make a well when your house is already engulfed in flames". It will be too late to seek a cure if you wasted time by using some cheap placebo instead.