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Thread: Assaying Gold

  1. #1
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    Assaying Gold

    This is a spin-off thread from Solar Eclipse: Creation of the Stone

    Quote Originally Posted by Florius Frammel View Post
    Any news about the treatment with nitric acid to proof the transmutation?
    My best advice on how to proceed with the treated lead sample: cupel the lead. See if any "grain" of metal remains. If it does, then observe its color. If it's silvery, take it out of the cupel and clean it from any attached bits of cupel it may have on its bottom, then put it in a test tube and dissolve it in a small amount of nitric acid (but sufficient to dissolve all of it.) Does it leave any undissolved residue? If no, then just go ahead and add a bit of distilled water to dilute the solution a bit, and then add a few drops of common salt solution to the dissolved metallic grain while swirling the test tube, all this being done while directly exposed to sunlight. If a white precipitate forms which quickly darkens by the sunlight, then this is most certainly silver. You can reduce it back to metallic silver as explained further below.

    If the silvery metallic grain did give an insoluble residue during its solution in nitric acid, separate it from the solution and wash it several times with distilled water. Then test to see if it dissolves in aqua regia. If it does, then proceed to test for gold as explained in the example below.

    But if the metallic grain was of a golden color, then take it out of the cupel, clean it from whatever bits of cupel might have become attached to its bottom, put it in a test tube and dissolve it in a small amount of aqua regia (but sufficient to dissolve all of it) and notice its color. Is it of a beautiful yellow/golden color? If yes, did it leave any residue? If no, then take the solution pour it in a glazed porcelain dish (like the ones chemists commonly use for evaporating solution samples, they are perfect for this operation), place it on a sand-bath and slowly evaporate it (you want to do this in the open air or under a fume-hood, since the vapors given off are corrosive) until you see that the solution is very concentrated (it should now have acquired an even more intense golden color) and maybe on the sides even some deposits are starting to form, then add a bit of distilled water to dilute the solution again. Repeat this evaporation and adding of distilled water some 4 or 5 times. This will get rid of the majority of the acidity. Then put back your diluted solution into the test tube. Now add some oxalic acid to it. Heat with an alcohol lamp or a yellow gas flame to dissolve the oxalic acid. Keep on heating. Does the solution eventually acquire a change in color (sort of faint purplish) alongside a "turbidity"? If yes, stop heating and let the test tube cool on its own and wait a few hours for this "turbidity" to settle down. Was a brown-reddish precipitate (very similar in appearance to precipitated metallic copper) obtained in the end? If yes, this is certainly gold. You can melt it down with a bit of borax in a crucible if you have enough of it to form a metallic bead or grain.

    If a white residue was left during the solution of the golden grain in aqua regia, separate it from the solution and wash it a few times with distilled water. Expose the washed white substance to direct sunlight. Does it readily darken? If yes, then this is certainly silver. You can reduce it back to metallic silver by mixing it with about three times its weight of potassium or sodium carbonate (you want to use an excess of alkali here, since silver chloride is volatile, so you want all of it to be very much in contact with the alkaline salt that will decompose it) and melting it in a crucible.

    The cupellation of an equal amount of untreated lead sample, coming from the exact same lead ingot/sheet where the treated lead sample came from, is necessary to assess whether a similar amount of gold or silver were not already present in the lead as impurities. I would recommend using assayer's lead, which is extremely low in silver, and even lower in gold, content for performing this kind of experiments.
    Last edited by Kiorionis; 02-08-2018 at 05:29 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    My best advice on how to proceed with the treated lead sample: cupel the lead. See if any "grain" of metal remains. If it does, then observe its color. If it's silvery, take it out of the cupel and clean it from any attached bits of cupel it may have on its bottom, then put it in a test tube and dissolve it in a small amount of nitric acid (but sufficient to dissolve all of it.) Does it leave any undissolved residue? If no, then just go ahead and add a bit of distilled water to dilute the solution a bit, and then add a few drops of common salt solution to the dissolved metallic grain while swirling the test tube, all this being done while directly exposed to sunlight. If a white precipitate forms which quickly darkens by the sunlight, then this is most certainly silver. You can reduce it back to metallic silver as explained further below.

    If the silvery metallic grain did give an insoluble residue during its solution in nitric acid, separate it from the solution and wash it several times with distilled water. Then test to see if it dissolves in aqua regia. If it does, then proceed to test for gold as explained in the example below.

    But if the metallic grain was of a golden color, then take it out of the cupel, clean it from whatever bits of cupel might have become attached to its bottom, put it in a test tube and dissolve it in a small amount of aqua regia (but sufficient to dissolve all of it) and notice its color. Is it of a beautiful yellow/golden color? If yes, did it leave any residue? If no, then take the solution pour it in a glazed porcelain dish (like the ones chemists commonly use for evaporating solution samples, they are perfect for this operation), place it on a sand-bath and slowly evaporate it (you want to do this in the open air or under a fume-hood, since the vapors given off are corrosive) until you see that the solution is very concentrated (it should now have acquired an even more intense golden color) and maybe on the sides even some deposits are starting to form, then add a bit of distilled water to dilute the solution again. Repeat this evaporation and adding of distilled water some 4 or 5 times. This will get rid of the majority of the acidity. Then put back your diluted solution into the test tube. Now add some oxalic acid to it. Heat with an alcohol lamp or a yellow gas flame to dissolve the oxalic acid. Keep on heating. Does the solution eventually acquire a change in color (sort of faint purplish) alongside a "turbidity"? If yes, stop heating and let the test tube cool on its own and wait a few hours for this "turbidity" to settle down. Was a brown-reddish precipitate (very similar in appearance to precipitated metallic copper) obtained in the end? If yes, this is certainly gold. You can melt it down with a bit of borax in a crucible if you have enough of it to form a metallic bead or grain.

    If a white residue was left during the solution of the golden grain in aqua regia, separate it from the solution and wash it a few times with distilled water. Expose the washed white substance to direct sunlight. Does it readily darken? If yes, then this is certainly silver. You can reduce it back to metallic silver by mixing it with about three times its weight of potassium or sodium carbonate (you want to use an excess of alkali here, since silver chloride is volatile, so you want all of it to be very much in contact with the alkaline salt that will decompose it) and melting it in a crucible.

    The cupellation of an equal amount of untreated lead sample, coming from the exact same lead ingot/sheet where the treated lead sample came from, is necessary to assess whether a similar amount of gold or silver were not already present in the lead as impurities. I would recommend using assayer's lead, which is extremely low in silver, and even lower in gold, content for performing this kind of experiments.
    That's the way.
    Thank you for writing the compact yet detailed description here. I vote for this procedure to be the ultimate proof of claimed transmutations here.
    Of course it is just a proof for the person who does the procedure. No picture or video will suffice to proof it to anybody else but in the end it is not necessary unless you really want to convince others of the possibility of transmutation in general. But that would be a big a deal, even it were only a very small amount of silver or gold.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    My best advice on how to proceed with the treated lead sample: cupel the lead. See if any "grain" of metal remains. If it does, then observe its color. If it's silvery, take it out of the cupel and clean it from any attached bits of cupel it may have on its bottom, then put it in a test tube and dissolve it in a small amount of nitric acid (but sufficient to dissolve all of it.) Does it leave any undissolved residue? If no, then just go ahead and add a bit of distilled water to dilute the solution a bit, and then add a few drops of common salt solution to the dissolved metallic grain while swirling the test tube, all this being done while directly exposed to sunlight. If a white precipitate forms which quickly darkens by the sunlight, then this is most certainly silver. You can reduce it back to metallic silver as explained further below.

    If the silvery metallic grain did give an insoluble residue during its solution in nitric acid, separate it from the solution and wash it several times with distilled water. Then test to see if it dissolves in aqua regia. If it does, then proceed to test for gold as explained in the example below.

    But if the metallic grain was of a golden color, then take it out of the cupel, clean it from whatever bits of cupel might have become attached to its bottom, put it in a test tube and dissolve it in a small amount of aqua regia (but sufficient to dissolve all of it) and notice its color. Is it of a beautiful yellow/golden color? If yes, did it leave any residue? If no, then take the solution pour it in a glazed porcelain dish (like the ones chemists commonly use for evaporating solution samples, they are perfect for this operation), place it on a sand-bath and slowly evaporate it (you want to do this in the open air or under a fume-hood, since the vapors given off are corrosive) until you see that the solution is very concentrated (it should now have acquired an even more intense golden color) and maybe on the sides even some deposits are starting to form, then add a bit of distilled water to dilute the solution again. Repeat this evaporation and adding of distilled water some 4 or 5 times. This will get rid of the majority of the acidity. Then put back your diluted solution into the test tube. Now add some oxalic acid to it. Heat with an alcohol lamp or a yellow gas flame to dissolve the oxalic acid. Keep on heating. Does the solution eventually acquire a change in color (sort of faint purplish) alongside a "turbidity"? If yes, stop heating and let the test tube cool on its own and wait a few hours for this "turbidity" to settle down. Was a brown-reddish precipitate (very similar in appearance to precipitated metallic copper) obtained in the end? If yes, this is certainly gold. You can melt it down with a bit of borax in a crucible if you have enough of it to form a metallic bead or grain.

    If a white residue was left during the solution of the golden grain in aqua regia, separate it from the solution and wash it a few times with distilled water. Expose the washed white substance to direct sunlight. Does it readily darken? If yes, then this is certainly silver. You can reduce it back to metallic silver by mixing it with about three times its weight of potassium or sodium carbonate (you want to use an excess of alkali here, since silver chloride is volatile, so you want all of it to be very much in contact with the alkaline salt that will decompose it) and melting it in a crucible.

    The cupellation of an equal amount of untreated lead sample, coming from the exact same lead ingot/sheet where the treated lead sample came from, is necessary to assess whether a similar amount of gold or silver were not already present in the lead as impurities. I would recommend using assayer's lead, which is extremely low in silver, and even lower in gold, content for performing this kind of experiments.
    Thank you for this information, JDP, when we try another transmute attempt with a higher degree Stone (assuming it does more), I'll see about performing exactly this to test it. (there are some materials listed here that I don't have and will need - and I can't see doing such with what I currently, potentially, have as its not remotely enough except for looks as is. lol)

    _______


    Quote Originally Posted by True Initiate View Post
    I have a feeling that Seth-Ra will succeed in this path just because of Seth-Ra performing it.
    Thank you very much True Initiate, I appreciate that sentiment a lot.

    _______

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmuldvich View Post
    Has he (or Lapis Solaris) ever accomplished anything worthwhile, including this experiment?
    lol umm...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiorionis View Post
    Define “worthwhile”
    Right? lol

    Lets see... worthwhile...

    • proficient with various weapons as well as unarmed fighting

    • developed a rather high degree of spiritual discipline and initiation

    • uses the above mentioned spiritual knowledge to further terrestrial understanding and used it to make many tinctures and medicines for people around me, free of charge

    • combated Shadows, both subtly, and in the full presence of others (including joining the Army, seeing and confronting the Shadow that controls it, lived to tell about it - Andro as my witness, and a huge help to me during such.)

    • saved the man, who is now my best friend, from suicide using Alchemy <-- click the link to find out more

    • restarted people's hearts, kept them from bleeding out... and when its not been so successful, held the body bags open, carried them, and picked up the pieces...

    • married Lapis Solaris, which is pretty fucking worthwhile, imo

    oh, but I guess we are talking just in the realm of lab work alone - not in life in general or more spiritual and subtle levels... In that case...

    • grown a red rock from dew alone

    • was growing a homunculi successfully - got too freaky and terminated it (still have the pics of that work)

    • the aforementioned medicines, and saving of my best friend and others in similar spots

    • healing our pets, and ourselves (we are often the first ones to sample anything experimental)

    • teaching others as I am lead to do so, as they are able to understand

    • handling of deadly and dangerous substances without any actual injury, ever (no shrapnel from exploding glass, no toxic fumes have ever harmed me, no acids have severely burned me - nitric stains arent a big deal ... and I play with and use a LOT of dangerous shit...)

    • made myself to rarely ever get sick and only occasionally have minor sinus drainage (meanwhile coworkers and family members drop like flies)

    • crafted varying degrees of the stone over the years - each with its own degree of ability to heal and/or transmute

    I mean... what more do ya want? lol
    What is "worthwhile" to you? My whole life has been pretty worthwhile, and consumed by alchemy - magick and science. Thats all there is to me, and it is everything there is at all.


    _______


    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    Well he banged his girlfriend right under a full eclipse. That's pretty awesome (IMO)
    I know she already addressed this, but again I must emphasize... 2 mins and 36 sec was the totality of the eclipse - in that time we combined the lab materials, and meditated on the All/One above us, initiated and spoken to by it.
    I know my wife is damn gorgeous, but dude, give me some credit - less than 2 mins, really? lolololololol

    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    AND he made a medicine out of mercury, using Spagyrics, and didn't die (also pretty awesome)
    Spagyrics tends to imply that its a particular designated to a certain kingdom - the 3 of that kingdom are separated, rectified, and reunited higher. While that does indeed happen at one stage - the starting matters are not solely metallic; this was and is designed as a universal Stone, ergo Alchemical.
    Im not wanting to turn this into a definition debate between the "secret solvent" that JDP goes on about (no offense is meant by that, JDP, I understand why its gone on about, as its the crux of what you believe to separate alchemy from normal chemistry - fair enough), nor about the "purists" who try to pull Spiritus Mundi from the source, versus those who use common matters known. But I will say that on this we may disagree, but I find no need for a super special solvent, or to pull Spiritus Mundi from the infinite aether; when everything is readily at hand and has only to be cultivated and reaped. Some consider that vampiric, I do not mind.
    We are not looking to be "free" or "separate" from the Ouroboros - but a higher part of its functioning; the Head rather than the Tail. So we observe Nature, see the qualities and properties and energies of the materials around us, and using the Art, we reap them, harness them, and elevate them - as we are understood, reaped, harnessed, and elevated. Solve et coagula.
    That is Alchemical, not simply spagyrical.

    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    And for all we know he may be coming up to an awesome assay.
    In good time.

    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    He also gained even more of our praise and respect, for helping us all to pioneer this modern revival of Alchemy. What a worthwhile mission indeed!
    We are happy to have the respect of our brethren, and to continue pioneering into the Art; its what we do.

    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    My deepest apologies. Congrats on your matrimony.

    Second apologies. I misinterpreted "we combined the work"

    Edit:
    lol tis forgiven. Tis all good.




    ~Seth-Ra
    One fatal tree there stands of knowledge called, forbidden them to taste. Knowledge forbidden? Suspicious. Reasonless. And why should their Lord envy them that? Can it be sin to know? Can it be death? And do they stand by ignorance, is that their happy state, the proof of their obedience and their faith?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth-Ra View Post
    Thank you for this information, JDP, when we try another transmute attempt with a higher degree Stone (assuming it does more), I'll see about performing exactly this to test it. (there are some materials listed here that I don't have and will need - and I can't see doing such with what I currently, potentially, have as its not remotely enough except for looks as is. lol)
    Getting very familiar with assaying and basic qualitative analysis is absolutely necessary for this endeavor. Outward appearances may deceive you, but the way metals behave and react with some reagents will never do so. It's like their "fingerprints". Always have electric furnaces/kilns (they are the most convenient for carrying out cupellations), cupels (either of bone-ash or magnesite), lead (preferably very pure, like assayer's lead), glass test tubes & flasks/bottles, acids (specially nitric, hydrochloric and oxalic acids, the most used ones in assaying), salts (specially common salt, borax and alkaline carbonates), sand-baths (a simple metal dish or frying pan with a layer of fine sand in it will do), electric and/or gas heating plates, distilled water, glazed porcelain evaporation dishes & crucibles, iron tripods & pipeclay triangles (for holding porcelain crucibles on top of the next item), gas burners (preferably Meker–Fisher type burners, which put out a more powerful blast than Bunsen type burners.) The essential tools of the trade.

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    Maybe this whole assaying procedure can also be outsourced?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    Maybe this whole assaying procedure can also be outsourced?
    Highly likely. Don't tell them it was a transmutation though (obviously)
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    Maybe this whole assaying procedure can also be outsourced?
    Yes, but in the end you will end up paying more when you consider that you will have to make a whole bunch of assays in the course of such investigations. If things always worked out well that would be great, you wouldn't mind paying for someone else to assay your guaranteed success, but reality is a Major Bitch (yes, with capital letters.) The amount of times your experiments will end up in failures far outweighs the successes, so get ready for a ton of negative assays. It all boils down to the fact that the majority of processes DO NOT WORK and produce A BIG FAT ANNOYING & COSTLY ZERO of gold/silver. Stumbling upon working ones requires persistence in the face of repeated failure.

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    Gold Testing



    Ghislain
    Last edited by Ghislain; 02-08-2018 at 09:34 AM.

  9. #9
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    I totally agree with JDP here. I would never outsource the (first) testing if I have the feeling I may have succeeded. Though few would really need that, this procedure of testing for gold and silver deserves a sticky of it's own in a forum that takes the possibility of transmutation seriously imo.

  10. #10
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    Another possibility for a very simple pre-test to identify gold or silver would be to acertain the density. This is only sensible when having higher quantities of metals but a lot easier.

    Weigh the object and note the mass.
    Take a measuring cylinder and put in water (approx. half of the max. scale). Note the volume (V1).
    Put your purefied metal sample into the cylinder and note the new volume (V2) as well.
    Now first substract V1 from V2 (V2-V1) and note the result (V3).

    Finally you can calculate the density by the formula

    Density = mass/volume (in our case V3)

    Density of gold: 19,3 g/cm3
    Density of silver: 10,5 g/cm3

    Note that the qualitative analysis described above can be more reliable as there are (few) metals that have similar densities (Tungsten: 19,25 g/cm3).
    Further you should perform the volume measurements at room temperature.

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