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Thread: What is progress for civilisation and humanity ?

  1. #1
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    What is progress for civilisation and humanity ?

    A post i made on Reddit
    Humans are social beings and our evolution has been dependent on that. We instinctual formed tribes instead of all living separately and shared our cultures. We knew that the best way to survive is together. Violence is a destructive behaviour it runs counter to our natural evolution. It is prevalent throughout human history so far because we have become dependent on violent behaviour to provide for us, a short term-ism survival strategy that creates future problems and ripples that stack up against us. We have to lose this behaviour and as species progress beyond the need to use it, or a relativity young human race wont even reach adulthood
    An advanced civilisation doesn't kidnap murder and abuse civilians, plan false flags or brainwash the populace, isn't greedy and obsessed with conquest.
    No matter how advanced your technology is your civilisation is still primitive if your governments leaders and scientists behave in these ways relying on violence for solutions.
    (this goes for any alien civilisation we might meet) Eventually they will become stuck they're technology advances but they do not,
    because they still adopt violent behaviours and tactics.
    Civilisation becomes cyclical, global government is built up then breaks apart because these violent tactics are not let go of.
    Only to slowly reform again under the same tactics and break up again because of them. Caught perpetually rediscovering knowledge.

    Humans as a species cannot advance if they still use violence for solutions.
    For civilisations progression to break its cyclical pattern, global governance has to let go of these tactics and grow beyond the need to use them.
    Millions of years from now all this effort for conquest and domination will be rendered pointless endeavours, but what effort now wont be ?
    Gold will lie idle in bunkers and the mere acquisition of material wealth a meaningless existence of an era long gone

    Control and greed are like trying to strangle water
    - Awani
    a great simile which sparked this thread

    How do you think humanity can truly evolve into an advanced civilisation ?
    Last edited by Kibric; 03-29-2018 at 12:58 AM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kibric View Post
    How do you think humanity can truly evolve into an advanced civilization?
    Perhaps you have already answered your own question:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kibric View Post
    Civilization becomes cyclical, global government is built up then breaks apart because these violent tactics are not let go of.
    Only to slowly reform again under the same tactics and break up again because of them. Caught perpetually rediscovering knowledge.
    Personally, I don't think "humanity" (as a whole) can evolve to become an advanced civilization.

    But it might be possible for small groups that manage to "break away" from the prevailing mental/social/cultural/political/financial "grid".

    http://www.naturalbornalchemist.com/episodes/2015/6/4/episode-30-the-hyperopia-of-utopia

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kibric View Post
    How do you think humanity can truly evolve into an advanced civilisation ?
    Drop acid, not bombs.

    __________________________

    We are evolving slowly into what you say. I am an optimist. Statistically there is less horrors in the world today than ever before (counting from the start of civilisation that is). Here are some things that will/would contribute to this progress:

    1. The coming out of the closet of the psycehdelic community and the legalisation of said substances (we owe them more than we think historically IMO).
    2. Tragedy: alien invasion, WWIII, plague or something like that.
    3. Robots/AI.
    4. Time.

    Recently read a very good book that I strongly agree with called The Inevitable by Kevin Kelly. In this book he mentions something called not dystopia nor utopia, but Protopia. Kelly says: “I am Protopian, not Utopian. I believe in progress, that things are getting better by a little bit. I don’t believe that we can eliminate problems without introducing new ones...” Also related to this.

    Like myself Kelly is not afraid of a robot/AI future. We should work with robots/AI, not against them. We should be allies. And in fact the robots/AI is already here... so it doesn't really matter what humans think about it... like the title of the book it is inevitable. There are supercomputers that learn by themselves. Everytime we google we teach it things, and the more it gets taught the better we can google.

    What we need is a Robot Government. LOL.

    Note: Americans think that Trump is proof that things are getting worse, but in fact he is not. Trump is in a way proof that people are sick of these fucking politicians... sadly Trump was the only choice they had, but Trump is the biggest "fuck you I do what I want" individual in the world right now. It does not matter if what he says/thinks is something we agree with... there are bigger things at work than Trump.

    Governments, religious institutions, universities, hospitals... in general terms they are all irrelevant.

    Revolution is in the works... and it is already going to be over before humanity realised that it was happening. If you are scared of paradigm shifts and changes, and if you love dogma and status quo, you are going to have a rough ride in the next 50 years.

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

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    The very existance of governments is solid proof of man's violent nature. It is the fictional entity that can force people to do whatever a bunch of people want, and their will is backed by the support of the public, and the blind obedience of the law enforcers because it comes off as legitimate when it is not.
    When people vote for taxes to be raised, they vote for the authorities to steal from you (with the threat of violence) part of your income. When they vote for minimum wage, they steal from you the ability to make your own choices.

    At the bottom of the pit, it becomes clear that the reason "authorities" were created in the first place was due to the inability of people to solve their own problems peacefully. Maybe that was due to lack of knowledge, maybe to insufficient control over their own emotions. No matter the case, a person is not born knowledgable nor can he place mind over feelings.
    For "society" to evolve, the individuals have to evolve. And you can't really force people to learn and behave properly. Thats why only a few are said to go to heaven.

    Progress is watching members of your society develop love for one another, control over themselves and knowledge of themselves, rising above the mundane affairs of the world, becoming able to view beyond the physical and lived reality, see the transcendant and attempt to become an avatar of the noble ideas that reside there.

    Technology doesn't progress anything. It either fertilizes the ground for people to truly evolve, or hinders their effort by bombarding them with thousands and millions of useless information.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amon View Post
    Technology doesn't progress anything. It either fertilizes the ground for people to truly evolve, or hinders their effort by bombarding them with thousands and millions of useless information.
    Language, tools, clothes, iPhones... it is all technology. The technology of today becomes the Stone Axe of tomorrow. We are moving into a Creative Culture. All media content is user created these days (YouTube, podcasts, blogs etc etc). With robots taking over everything we do, we will do new and even greater things.

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

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    @Andro
    Personally, I don't think "humanity" (as a whole) can evolve to become an advanced civilization.
    We'll get you there, if not this dream then the next.

    @Awani
    Drop acid, not bombs.
    There is evidence to suggest hallucinogens played a part in human evolution
    We are evolving slowly into what you say. I am an optimist. Statistically there is less horrors in the world today than ever before (counting from the start of civilisation that is). Here are some things that will/would contribute to this progress:
    1. The coming out of the closet of the psycehdelic community and the legalisation of said substances (we owe them more than we think historically IMO).
    2. Tragedy: alien invasion, WWIII, plague or something like that.
    3. Robots/AI.
    4. Time.
    Number one definitely, one day all drugs will be legal. Layer cake the film surprisingly made this point.
    Number two definitely no. We do not need suffering in order to grow, that is primitive paradigm of a devolving species
    Number three has happened before and poses a threat of replacing biological human beings into inorganic beings
    completely screwing the arc of our natural evolution into a synthetic evolution, where whatever used to be human is not human anymore
    Number four yes, slowly improvements happen. I will check out that book.
    What we need is a Robot Government. LOL
    God No...
    Trump is in a way proof that people are sick of these fucking politicians... sadly Trump was the only choice they had, but Trump is the biggest "fuck you I do what I want" individual in the world right now. It does not matter if what he says/thinks is something we agree with... there are bigger things at work than Trump.
    absolutely no way you get to sit in that office without a decades worth of planning.
    Governments, religious institutions, universities, hospitals... in general terms they are all irrelevant.
    ......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kibric View Post
    @Andro

    We'll get you there, if not this dream then the next.
    Who is "we"?

    Besides, in the "bigger picture", all those dreams are simultaneous, not sequential. And I've already been to many of them...

    As I said in the above linked podcast, the road to utopia is paved with concentration camps...

    Check out the millennia-long debate between Jakob and his nameless twin brother in the TV series 'Lost':

    http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showthread.php?2065-Lost&p=13782#post13782

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    Interesting question. Personally, I think we turn to violence because of fear. It is animal instinct. But many of our fears revolving around our fellow man are manufactured by the Guardians of Orthodoxy. When we teach our children to be self aware, and to make their own choices based on what they know--not what they think they know--maybe we will improve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eshai View Post
    Interesting question. Personally, I think we turn to violence because of fear. It is animal instinct. But many of our fears revolving around our fellow man are manufactured by the Guardians of Orthodoxy. When we teach our children to be self aware, and to make their own choices based on what they know--not what they think they know--maybe we will improve.

    Exactly, hence my most recent thread. Lose your religion and look inside yourself. Fear comes from ignorance and turns to hatred. Those who want power know how to focus our fears and direct our hatred for their own benefit.

    We are successful as a species due to our ability to work together, once we all know and understand our selves we can begin to know and understand each other, at that instant the Universe will be our playground.

    Ghislain

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    The biggest problem we face today is that America the most powerful country in the world has had its government hijacked and it is being used against its own people and other western countries. An example of that is recently America let thousands of Isis fighters into Europe.

    This convoy was miles long and took four hours to pass supervised by the US and allowed to escape ultimately into Europe via Turkey. In the news they downplayed it by reporting that "hundreds" of ISIS fighters were allowed to escape when in reality it was many thousands.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oEfLf30NPA
    Last edited by Luxus; 03-30-2018 at 04:36 PM.

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