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Thread: Transmuted Gold and Silver by Boettger

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    Apparently you must think that the king and the other witnesses were retarded and would not have obviously seen such a simple trick. Even entire manuals were written in order to expose the tricks of con-men and charlatans trying to pass as "alchemists". See, for example, Maier's Examen Fucorum Pseudo-Chymicorum, entirely devoted to the subject of advising unwary people regarding such tricks. There's just no way that the king and the other court fellows would have fallen for such a gimmick. We are not talking about illiterate "rustics" here, but educated people who were familiar with the subject.

    In order to easily expose this trick, all you have to do is simply take a sample of the "copper" and the "lead" and give them a nice hammer blow. They will break apart, like all amalgams, and unlike pure metals, which are malleable. In such transmutation demonstrations it was customary to give the alchemist performing the demonstration the metals which he was going to transmute right in front of all witnesses, not let him bring these metals himself and thus giving him (should he really be a crook) a chance to tamper with them beforehand.
    Not retarded no...but tricked, even an educated man can be tricked...and thats saying nothing about an academic who is the easiest to trick of all.

    Explain the deep fingerprints in the samples, if they were not produced when the samples were soft then how were those imprints formed?

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luxus View Post
    Not retarded no...but tricked, even an educated man can be tricked...and thats saying nothing about an academic who is the easiest to trick of all.
    You would have to be in order to be swindled by such a silly trick that everyone interested in alchemy in those times would have more than known very well about. Even in medieval writers, like Chaucer, you already find the parody of the swindler pretending to be an "alchemist" using such tricks. So, needless to say no one in the 18th century would have fallen for the old, tired & exposed to death amalgams trick.

    Explain the deep fingerprints in the samples, if they were not produced when the samples were soft then how were those imprints formed?
    I already did:

    http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showt...6965#post56965

  3. #13
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    So the materials, both the raw metal and the Tincture, were added to the crucibles and heated together. I assume the crucibles were covered. Projecting this way would cut down on the sputtering and splattering sure enough

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    You would have to be in order to be swindled by such a silly trick that everyone interested in alchemy in those times would have more than known very well about. Even in medieval writers, like Chaucer, you already find the parody of the swindler pretending to be an "alchemist" using such tricks. So, needless to say no one in the 18th century would have fallen for the old, tired & exposed to death amalgams trick.



    I already did:

    http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showt...6965#post56965
    "The "fingerprints" might actually be just that: fingerprints left on the samples of artificial silver & gold by someone inspecting them."

    To my mind that is not an explanation, you see I have never had the experience of handling gold only to have my fingers burn deeply into the gold my fingerprints...so whats different with this guys fingers and mine?

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luxus View Post
    "The "fingerprints" might actually be just that: fingerprints left on the samples of artificial silver & gold by someone inspecting them."

    To my mind that is not an explanation, you see I have never had the experience of handling gold only to have my fingers burn deeply into the gold my fingerprints...so whats different with this guys fingers and mine?
    How do you know that they are "burned deeply into the gold"? And from the pictures I can only definitely say I can see a fingerprint on the silver nugget, and it could be from someone handling the sample and then no one having bothered to clean it.

    If you heat amalgams they melt, so how could they retain fingerprints on their surface?

  6. #16
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    Want some math?

    The official website of the museum says:

    Gold Regulus: d = 3,6 cm, G. 169,6 g
    Silver Regulus: d = 4,1 cm, G. 167,9 g

    My memory made them double size.

  7. #17
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    To me it looks like those fingerprints are deeply pressed into those samples in the same way as if you had a clay ball. This is the reason I suggest these samples must have been balls of amalgam at some point.

    Amalgams have a melting point if you stay below that temperature they don't melt...but the mercury will be dissociated from the alloy in the form of mercury vapour leaving you with the other component of the amalgam silver/gold etc

    In Asia mercury amalgam balls are worn as jewellery and if made poorly you can see fingerprints in them.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBJeRM4mSvc

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luxus View Post
    To me it looks like those fingerprints are deeply pressed into those samples in the same way as if you had a clay ball. This is the reason I suggest these samples must have been balls of amalgam at some point.

    Amalgams have a melting point if you stay below that temperature they don't melt...but the mercury will be dissociated from the alloy in the form of mercury vapour leaving you with the other component of the amalgam silver/gold etc

    In Asia mercury amalgam balls are worn as jewellery and if made poorly you can see fingerprints in them.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBJeRM4mSvc
    If you have heated amalgams to drive the mercury away you will also see that the silver or gold left behind get a "spongy" look, different than the "smooth" look of the amalgam. It doesn't seem very likely to me that the solid metals in the amalgam could retain such things as fingerprints on their surface, unlike the amalgam "balls", which are smooth.

    I can only see one thing that seems almost surely like a fingerprint: it's on the silver nugget (the one on top), the gold one seems to have some lines on it here and there, but they could be from the mold where the metal was cast, it is not 100% clear from the picture if it is a fingerprint.

  9. #19
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    I found out another story about these reguli:

    In 1750 Graf (Earl) Hennicke did his researches. He hoped that there may be something left of the stone inside the gold and silver. So he melted the gold and added some lead. After cupelation and the separation of the lead, the weight of the gold was the same like before.

    Then the silver was cupelled with lead as well. This time the weight decreased (from 11 lot to 10 lot of silver).

    All people involved in Boettger's experiments, noble men and "scientists" alike, never had the slightest doubt about the truth of metal transmutation. The biggest fan of the 19 year old Boettger was the most famous chymist of his times Johann Kunckel. The old Kunckel was asking his younger idol many questions. They seemed to work on a process by Basil Valentine. In a letter Kunckel wrote: "...please tell me, how strong the first grade of fire must be approxiametly. ...so a beautiful red sublimate is rising, but no powder falls on the bottom. Have I erred here? ...so it gives a beautuful salt..if it can be used for the certain thing? Please answer! The red powder won't tinge".

    It's noteworthy that unlike Boettger many false alchemists were killed by the authorities. He "invented" porcelain much later and all this time they let him live (in a kind of prison).

    About two or three years after Boettger's first transmutstions they found Lascaris, the mysterious alchemist Boettger got the stone from. He was dying and regretted giving Boettger the stone. He had seen what trouble the young Boettger caused with it. But he was content giving him a false recipie in which two matters were involved: Cinnabar and Oil of Vitriol.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florius Frammel View Post
    I found out another story about these reguli:

    In 1750 Graf (Earl) Hennicke did his researches. He hoped that there may be something left of the stone inside the gold and silver. So he melted the gold and added some lead. After cupelation and the separation of the lead, the weight of the gold was the same like before.

    Then the silver was cupelled with lead as well. This time the weight decreased (from 11 lot to 10 lot of silver).

    All people involved in Boettger's experiments, noble men and "scientists" alike, never had the slightest doubt about the truth of metal transmutation. The biggest fan of the 19 year old Boettger was the most famous chymist of his times Johann Kunckel. The old Kunckel was asking his younger idol many questions. They seemed to work on a process by Basil Valentine. In a letter Kunckel wrote: "...please tell me, how strong the first grade of fire must be approxiametly. ...so a beautiful red sublimate is rising, but no powder falls on the bottom. Have I erred here? ...so it gives a beautuful salt..if it can be used for the certain thing? Please answer! The red powder won't tinge".
    Where is this letter found today?

    It's noteworthy that unlike Boettger many false alchemists were killed by the authorities. He "invented" porcelain much later and all this time they let him live (in a kind of prison).
    The execution of alchemical "betruegers" was not necessarily connected with fraud regarding the transmutations themselves. Some of these were totally genuine, and the authorities did not doubt for a second their genuineness, but the problem is that the "betruegers" in question were not upholding their contracts and were fleeing with the transmuting "tinctures" (and whatever money advances they managed to acquire) in their possession instead of continuing with the agreements they had reached with the rulers of a given area. Sometimes it is obvious why some of these fellows were doing such things: they had, indeed, samples of a transmuting "tincture", but they had not prepared it themselves, so the contract with a given ruler was actually a farce. The "betrueger" would demonstrate actual transmutations to totally convince them of the reality of the subject, then lure them into making a contract for a regular production of artificial silver or gold, get some monetary advancement, and then flee to another territory and try the same tactic again. That way they could get the most out of the limited supply of transmuting "tincture" they had in their power.

    About two or three years after Boettger's first transmutstions they found Lascaris, the mysterious alchemist Boettger got the stone from. He was dying and regretted giving Boettger the stone. He had seen what trouble the young Boettger caused with it. But he was content giving him a false recipie in which two matters were involved: Cinnabar and Oil of Vitriol.
    Source for this interesting info?

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