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Thread: Transmuted Gold and Silver by Boettger

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    Apparently you must think that the king and the other witnesses were retarded and would not have obviously seen such a simple trick. Even entire manuals were written in order to expose the tricks of con-men and charlatans trying to pass as "alchemists". See, for example, Maier's Examen Fucorum Pseudo-Chymicorum, entirely devoted to the subject of advising unwary people regarding such tricks. There's just no way that the king and the other court fellows would have fallen for such a gimmick. We are not talking about illiterate "rustics" here, but educated people who were familiar with the subject.

    In order to easily expose this trick, all you have to do is simply take a sample of the "copper" and the "lead" and give them a nice hammer blow. They will break apart, like all amalgams, and unlike pure metals, which are malleable. In such transmutation demonstrations it was customary to give the alchemist performing the demonstration the metals which he was going to transmute right in front of all witnesses, not let him bring these metals himself and thus giving him (should he really be a crook) a chance to tamper with them beforehand.
    Not retarded no...but tricked, even an educated man can be tricked...and thats saying nothing about an academic who is the easiest to trick of all.

    Explain the deep fingerprints in the samples, if they were not produced when the samples were soft then how were those imprints formed?

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luxus View Post
    Not retarded no...but tricked, even an educated man can be tricked...and thats saying nothing about an academic who is the easiest to trick of all.
    You would have to be in order to be swindled by such a silly trick that everyone interested in alchemy in those times would have more than known very well about. Even in medieval writers, like Chaucer, you already find the parody of the swindler pretending to be an "alchemist" using such tricks. So, needless to say no one in the 18th century would have fallen for the old, tired & exposed to death amalgams trick.

    Explain the deep fingerprints in the samples, if they were not produced when the samples were soft then how were those imprints formed?
    I already did:

    http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showt...6965#post56965

  3. #13
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    So the materials, both the raw metal and the Tincture, were added to the crucibles and heated together. I assume the crucibles were covered. Projecting this way would cut down on the sputtering and splattering sure enough

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    You would have to be in order to be swindled by such a silly trick that everyone interested in alchemy in those times would have more than known very well about. Even in medieval writers, like Chaucer, you already find the parody of the swindler pretending to be an "alchemist" using such tricks. So, needless to say no one in the 18th century would have fallen for the old, tired & exposed to death amalgams trick.



    I already did:

    http://forum.alchemyforums.com/showt...6965#post56965
    "The "fingerprints" might actually be just that: fingerprints left on the samples of artificial silver & gold by someone inspecting them."

    To my mind that is not an explanation, you see I have never had the experience of handling gold only to have my fingers burn deeply into the gold my fingerprints...so whats different with this guys fingers and mine?

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luxus View Post
    "The "fingerprints" might actually be just that: fingerprints left on the samples of artificial silver & gold by someone inspecting them."

    To my mind that is not an explanation, you see I have never had the experience of handling gold only to have my fingers burn deeply into the gold my fingerprints...so whats different with this guys fingers and mine?
    How do you know that they are "burned deeply into the gold"? And from the pictures I can only definitely say I can see a fingerprint on the silver nugget, and it could be from someone handling the sample and then no one having bothered to clean it.

    If you heat amalgams they melt, so how could they retain fingerprints on their surface?

  6. #16
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    Want some math?

    The official website of the museum says:

    Gold Regulus: d = 3,6 cm, G. 169,6 g
    Silver Regulus: d = 4,1 cm, G. 167,9 g

    My memory made them double size.

  7. #17
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    To me it looks like those fingerprints are deeply pressed into those samples in the same way as if you had a clay ball. This is the reason I suggest these samples must have been balls of amalgam at some point.

    Amalgams have a melting point if you stay below that temperature they don't melt...but the mercury will be dissociated from the alloy in the form of mercury vapour leaving you with the other component of the amalgam silver/gold etc

    In Asia mercury amalgam balls are worn as jewellery and if made poorly you can see fingerprints in them.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBJeRM4mSvc

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luxus View Post
    To me it looks like those fingerprints are deeply pressed into those samples in the same way as if you had a clay ball. This is the reason I suggest these samples must have been balls of amalgam at some point.

    Amalgams have a melting point if you stay below that temperature they don't melt...but the mercury will be dissociated from the alloy in the form of mercury vapour leaving you with the other component of the amalgam silver/gold etc

    In Asia mercury amalgam balls are worn as jewellery and if made poorly you can see fingerprints in them.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBJeRM4mSvc
    If you have heated amalgams to drive the mercury away you will also see that the silver or gold left behind get a "spongy" look, different than the "smooth" look of the amalgam. It doesn't seem very likely to me that the solid metals in the amalgam could retain such things as fingerprints on their surface, unlike the amalgam "balls", which are smooth.

    I can only see one thing that seems almost surely like a fingerprint: it's on the silver nugget (the one on top), the gold one seems to have some lines on it here and there, but they could be from the mold where the metal was cast, it is not 100% clear from the picture if it is a fingerprint.

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