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Thread: Do you know what you are looking for?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellin Hermetist View Post
    Who are those alchemists?



    Ignorance of what? Who is ignorant and who is not?
    Mostly the Taoist Alchemists.

    Ignorant of knowing "who am I" all of us who have not reached enlightenment.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luxus View Post
    It is liquid, it is clear, it is a solvent, it is wet, it is vital for life, it boils at 100c at sea level, 70% of the Earth is covered in it...all these things describe attributes of water but not what water is. Water is a bipolar molecule consisting of two hydrogen atoms asymmetrically fused to one Oxygen atom.

    What is the philosophers stone, do you know what you are looking for?
    Then what you are talking about is modern chemical interpretations regarding the composition of substances. That is a different issue. If you could give that "two hydrogen atoms asymmetrically fused to one oxygen atom" interpretation to an alchemist from olden times it would be meaningless to him. Yet he still would be able to know what common water "is", though he would interpret its "composition" differently. No matter how you choose to interpret water's composition, the fact is that it is a "liquid, it is clear, it is a solvent, it is wet, it is vital for life, it boils at 100c at sea level, 70% of the Earth is covered in it"; those are observable facts. "Two hydrogen atoms asymmetrically fused to one Oxygen atom" is a theoretical interpretation of what causes the substance that displays those facts to come about.

  3. #33
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    Many alchemists have alluded to the philosophers stone not only being a substance that can cure illness but also enlighten the mind.
    I like the sound of that !

    The true predicament humans need saving from is their own ignorance.
    Yes Luxus I would have to partially agree with you on this point.

    Perhaps not being SAVED from our own ignorance/soul immaturity.

    We are here to work through all of life's myriad of scenarios, if it was
    just given to us we would be cheated from this most profound experience,
    which allows the soul to grow/evolve.


    If the stone has this attribute whats to stop it being used for the enlightenment of the masses?
    What do you think the answer to this question is ???

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    Then what you are talking about is modern chemical interpretations regarding the composition of substances. That is a different issue. If you could give that "two hydrogen atoms asymmetrically fused to one oxygen atom" interpretation to an alchemist from olden times it would be meaningless to him. Yet he still would be able to know what common water "is", though he would interpret its "composition" differently. No matter how you choose to interpret water's composition, the fact is that it is a "liquid, it is clear, it is a solvent, it is wet, it is vital for life, it boils at 100c at sea level, 70% of the Earth is covered in it"; those are observable facts. "Two hydrogen atoms asymmetrically fused to one Oxygen atom" is a theoretical interpretation of what causes the substance that displays those facts to come about.
    The Alchemists were following a formula and they did represent their goal with an equation (and a symbol) Contemplation on that equation ultimately tells you what it is, how it is made and what its nature is. The components which build that equation comes from a study of the pythagorean tetractys, the four elements, sulphur, mercury, salt and sol and luna.

  5. #35
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    Do you have the Philosophers stone Luxus ?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by black View Post
    I like the sound of that !



    Yes Luxus I would have to partially agree with you on this point.

    Perhaps not being SAVED from our own ignorance/soul immaturity.

    We are here to work through all of life's myriad of scenarios, if it was
    just given to us we would be cheated from this most profound experience,
    which allows the soul to grow/evolve.




    What do you think the answer to this question is ???
    I guess I need to be more clear about what humanity needs saving from. The world you now live in has fallen under the control of dark forces. These dark forces have been engaged in manipulation of the masses but it was only really with the development of the mass media that this has accelerated. Some may say all that is purely political and economic in nature (I mentioned the international bankers) however back of all this there is actually a demonic force at work.
    It seems to me that the masses have fallen to such a degree that they are not capable of digging themselves out of this mess...help must now come from outside. If this help does not come to borrow from lord of the rings, middle Earth will fall. What could be the nature of this help? ultimately a degree of enlightenment just enough to allow them to digg themselves out of this mess and overcome those dark forces of the Kali yuga.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kibric View Post
    Do you have the Philosophers stone Luxus ?
    I like your directness

    In truth the stone comes in three forms, the solid and liquid (or fixed) form being most potent and is what most understand by the stone. I am still working on the fixed phase.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luxus View Post
    The Alchemists were following a formula and they did represent their goal with an equation (and a symbol) Contemplation on that equation ultimately tells you what it is, how it is made and what its nature is. The components which build that equation comes from a study of the pythagorean tetractys, the four elements, sulphur, mercury, salt and sol and luna.
    These were just their theoretical musings, and also many times part of their tactic of obfuscating and confusing the subject for the people they considered "unworthy". You will never discover how to make it by "contemplation" of such things, since these "elements", "sulphurs", "mercuries", etc. are purely imaginary speculative concepts, and when they do not refer to that but to concrete & real substances these code-names are still too vague to be of use. The alchemists worked with very real and tangible substances, the problem is that they never clearly tell you their common names (i.e. the names under which everybody knows these substances) and instead fill entire books with arbitrary fanciful and/or misleading names for these substances (i.e. "decknamen") So, for example, telling you that to make the Stone you must take 3 parts of "water", one of "earth" and 1/2 of "air" and then make them into "one thing" is not going to be very revealing regarding what exactly are these substances hiding under such vague code-names. Without further info, such code-words are just too open to interpretation and could be a bunch of things. That's why you need to "fish" for more info to try to narrow down and positively identify what they actually are. Some alchemists will provide better "clues" than others. "Fishing" for such info, coupled by empirical trial & error (to test whether your conclusions were correct or not), is the "key". It is in fact THE ONLY "KEY".

  9. #39
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    Would you prove it to me in PM ?
    " Turning water into earth the hardest part " is this where you are stuck ?
    If you share with me i will share my work with you.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    These were just their theoretical musings, and also many times part of their tactic of obfuscating and confusing the subject for the people they considered "unworthy". You will never discover how to make it by "contemplation" of such things, since these "elements", "sulphurs", "mercuries", etc. are purely imaginary speculative concepts, and when they do not refer to that but to concrete & real substances these code-names are still too vague to be of use. The alchemists worked with very real and tangible substances, the problem is that they never clearly tell you their common names (i.e. the names under which everybody knows these substances) and instead fill entire books with arbitrary fanciful and/or misleading names for these substances (i.e. "decknamen") So, for example, telling you that to make the Stone you must take 3 parts of "water", one of "earth" and 1/2 of "air" and then make them into "one thing" is not going to be very revealing regarding what exactly are these substances hiding under such vague code-names. Without further info, such code-words are just too open to interpretation and could be a bunch of things. That's why you need to "fish" for more info to try to narrow down and positively identify what they actually are. Some alchemists will provide better "clues" than others. "Fishing" for such info, coupled by empirical trial & error (to test whether your conclusions were correct or not), is the "key". It is in fact THE ONLY "KEY".
    At some time in history there must have been the first man who was the first to produce the stone. Do you think this guy just accidentally discovered this weird substance or do you think he first had a theory, was following a process ?

    I believe he had a theory first and that theory was generated (I believe) from philosophical contemplation on the pythagorean tetractys. Perhaps it was a theory for a long time, a goal among philosophers however eventually someone discovered the substances that made the theory reality. Still this person would have followed the theory only replacing symbols and concepts with real world matter. Others (Zosimos) believe man never worked it out but was given it complete. Yes those decknames conceal other things but they are not random in their selection ie they have similar properties.

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