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Thread: First Attempt at Dry Distillation

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    269
    What it is not possible to do there?
    It is an oven for a lifetime, like zoas23 says.
    Even, you can create life there...

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    Vat do yoo mean "sometimes"? I'm zie biggest man in zie vorld. Can yoo understand dis?! Vat do yoo tink about dat, yoo girlyman!
    LOL, Conan! Sometimes flexibility helps more than big muscles. Then again, you are right... sometimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by pierre View Post
    What it is not possible to do there?
    It is an oven for a lifetime, like zoas23 says.
    Even, you can create life there...
    I guess they are typical in your area too. They are really cheap (the cost may end up being $0 if you have everything at hand, if you don't, it will still be less than $50)... and having seen many of them, I have not seen yet one of them "broken" (actually a friend told me how he broke one with heat, but he is an Aries, so it doesn't count ).
    A small group of friends got enthusiast with the medieval recreations (a hobby I will never understand) and they are making their "medieval swords" using mud ovens with no problem.

    So it looks like the obvious and cheap solution.

  3. #43
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    Jan 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoas23 View Post
    LOL, Conan! Sometimes flexibility helps more than big muscles. Then again, you are right... sometimes.



    I guess they are typical in your area too. They are really cheap (the cost may end up being $0 if you have everything at hand, if you don't, it will still be less than $50)... and having seen many of them, I have not seen yet one of them "broken" (actually a friend told me how he broke one with heat, but he is an Aries, so it doesn't count ).
    A small group of friends got enthusiast with the medieval recreations (a hobby I will never understand) and they are making their "medieval swords" using mud ovens with no problem.

    So it looks like the obvious and cheap solution.


    Yes, that's right, Zoas.

    There is almost an oven for every house in the zone where I live.

    They are done out of the house, in the garden, because the heat that they reach they are very high.

    All you need is some mud, refractory bricks, a bit from glass and a morning of work. But for alqchemical use, an oven so big, maybe, is not necessary.
    My sister use to cook all his ceramics works, there.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by z0 K View Post
    Nice work and adjustment of what equipment you have. I suggest you separate the tars from the watery matter. Then distill the waters in a BM. Check the pH of the distillate. There are several ways to proceed.
    A question for you zero, since you mentioned a BM. These waters will be subject to scorching if distilled in a common way rather than a water bath? They've already survived quite a fire once. I wonder why regulation of the temperature with precision is super important for distillation. That or I don't understand what you mean by BM. Does it have something to do with residual tars in the feces, and worry about scorching those and turning them to a worse poison than they already are?

  5. #45
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    Okay, so I've separated the waters from the thick syrup/tarry stuff with a simple decant through a coffee filter. A little of the thick stuff got through, but not much.

    My dry distillation products never separated into a "red" and a "white," so everything was mixed up together in the pickle jar, a reddish watery liquid and a dark goo were the only visible parts.

    My first attempt at distillation of the "waters" was with a water bath. Even at a rolling boil, very little came over, maybe 30-40 drops, if that, and it was separated into an "oily" part, and a watery part. This separation was not noticed before the distillation, so I thought it was a bit strange.

    Last night, I used a sand bath over a gentle flame, bringing the waters to a gentle simmer, and caught enough distillate to start testing.

    Interesting highlights: The distillate came over clear for quite a bit. I think I started with around 120mL of "waters," and about half came over clear. Then the solution suddenly colored to a bright orange and went opaque. I swapped receivers, and started catching a clear yellow fluid until the water level in the distillation flask came close to the sand level outside the flask.

    Here's what they looked like this morning:


    The orange solution definitely needs another go to extract the clear stuff. I'm not sure where this coloring evolved from, but I suspect a sputtering of tar worked itself over the helm and contaminated it (there's residual tarry stuff in the boiling flask). It happened after an increase in my flame, so do this over low heat, or the toad will jump across the river of life.

    The orange flask showed a neutral pH, while the yellow is slightly acidic (4-5 based on the paper, maybe). Acetic in there maybe? Even though this whole project is just an introduction to dry distilling for me, I can see that there is a LOT going on here, and the possibilities for further study seem endless. This part is all with only the waters. The tars are still in the pickle jar waiting for something to do, lol.

    Anyway, cool result, and I've seen very little of what things look like once the practitioner starts working with the distillation products as opposed to extracting them from the plant matter. I have other experiments lined up, but as I work with these products, I'll probably post a bit more here and there.

  6. #46
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    Are you able to do anything worthwhile with the distillate(s)?

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmuldvich View Post
    Are you able to do anything worthwhile with the distillate(s)?
    I'm not sure yet. I'm hoping to make the vegetable stone with this concoction, but with the available materials, It'll be a long shot to scrounge up a few grains. This procedure is mostly an exploration in search of "interesting" results that can be built upon later. Juniperus Virginicum is a tree ruled by Jupiter, and a symbol of abundance that has taught me a lot in the realm of plants, leading to the other experiment I have planned for this year.

    Actually, doing this with plants itself isn't the goal, but I haven't collected my "serpent with a shaly head" for the opus, and that procedure will most likely require higher temps and more equipment. Progress with plants by this method will be used as an indicator of that path. Plus I have faith in the method, as I believe Z is already using this plant stone to his own benefit. That's a game I want in on, but I'll have to find the little secrets on my own.

    So far, the "worthwhile" part is the education. The material is not behaving as I expected, and that's always exciting.

  8. #48
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon's Tail View Post
    A question for you zero, since you mentioned a BM. These waters will be subject to scorching if distilled in a common way rather than a water bath? They've already survived quite a fire once. I wonder why regulation of the temperature with precision is super important for distillation. That or I don't understand what you mean by BM. Does it have something to do with residual tars in the feces, and worry about scorching those and turning them to a worse poison than they already are?
    Sorry for the late reply. I didn't see this until now. The water and tars didn't survive the high temp dry distillation. They were created by it. You could distill at higher temps than a BM (water bath). The water will not be burned but the tar oil will go over with it if the temp is too high. The tars are poisonous. I've distilled them to a wicked purity foul like diesel fuel, not for human consumption.

    Since alchemy is the paradigm we're working with we want to isolate and purify the Elements received in the dry distillation. You received from that distillation some watery material which is the crude alchemical element Water and some tars which contain the crude alchemical element Fire. If done right and depending on the plant used you would get a volatile salt which is the alchemical element Air. Otherwise the Air element will remain hidden in the water and tars. Also the water when pure is the alchemical principle Mercury. Fire extracted from the poisonous tars is the alchemical principle Sulfur.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
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    303
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon's Tail View Post
    Okay, so I've separated the waters from the thick syrup/tarry stuff with a simple decant through a coffee filter. A little of the thick stuff got through, but not much.

    My dry distillation products never separated into a "red" and a "white," so everything was mixed up together in the pickle jar, a reddish watery liquid and a dark goo were the only visible parts.

    My first attempt at distillation of the "waters" was with a water bath. Even at a rolling boil, very little came over, maybe 30-40 drops, if that, and it was separated into an "oily" part, and a watery part. This separation was not noticed before the distillation, so I thought it was a bit strange.

    Last night, I used a sand bath over a gentle flame, bringing the waters to a gentle simmer, and caught enough distillate to start testing.

    Interesting highlights: The distillate came over clear for quite a bit. I think I started with around 120mL of "waters," and about half came over clear. Then the solution suddenly colored to a bright orange and went opaque. I swapped receivers, and started catching a clear yellow fluid until the water level in the distillation flask came close to the sand level outside the flask.

    Here's what they looked like this morning:


    The orange solution definitely needs another go to extract the clear stuff. I'm not sure where this coloring evolved from, but I suspect a sputtering of tar worked itself over the helm and contaminated it (there's residual tarry stuff in the boiling flask). It happened after an increase in my flame, so do this over low heat, or the toad will jump across the river of life.

    The orange flask showed a neutral pH, while the yellow is slightly acidic (4-5 based on the paper, maybe). Acetic in there maybe? Even though this whole project is just an introduction to dry distilling for me, I can see that there is a LOT going on here, and the possibilities for further study seem endless. This part is all with only the waters. The tars are still in the pickle jar waiting for something to do, lol.

    Anyway, cool result, and I've seen very little of what things look like once the practitioner starts working with the distillation products as opposed to extracting them from the plant matter. I have other experiments lined up, but as I work with these products, I'll probably post a bit more here and there.
    Every experiment is a learning experience. The slightly acidic yellow liquid most likely has acetic acid in it as it is a part of the pyro-acid complex produced by the destructive distillation. It may also have ammonium acetate in it as well.

    You are right the possibilities are endless.

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