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Thread: Enlightenment is not for you

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  1. #1
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    Enlightenment is not for you

    Disclaimer: I do not claim to be enlightened by any stretch of the imagination.

    We have a few threads on enlightenment, but I thought this should be on its own. Recently, and in the past, there has been some discussion on enlightenment. These discussions go from "how to get it", "what it is"... etc etc.

    In the past year I have really achieved some deep personal wisdom, wisdom that is neither new nor spectacular... but that is, on a personal level, earth shattering.

    And I want to point it out here, because this wisdom is VERY important when we discuss enlightenment.

    In Buddhism we have this famous prayer:

    Until I am enlightened, I take refuge
    In the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha.
    Through the merit I create by practicing giving and the other perfections
    May I attain enlightenment for the sake of all sentient beings.


    I think there is one aspect in the enlightenment-debate that everyone lacks to see... or fail to mention... and it is this: It is not for you. It is not for I.

    May I attain enlightenment for the sake of all sentient beings.

    It is easier to show compassion if you are not highly depressed. In fact it is easier to cause harm to others if you feel depressed. An individual that is fully enlightened would be in the perfect position to spread compassion to all.

    Enlightenment is not something one becomes. Enlightenment is not something that should benefit the self, it benefits everyone around you. Enlightenment is not a status, it is non-status... it is a un-becoming... so that others can achieve the same state... because in the realm of compassion resides love, and in the realm of such energies it is easier to achieve peace of mind. Because all existence is suffering.

    When I was young I thought this was a cynical perspective. Now I know it is the opposite. When I cut my finger I can go: "ouch that fucking hurt, fuck... motherfucker... ouch..."

    I can also react in this way: "oh I cut myself... that really hurts... the blood has a beautiful color... I know I am in pain... but my pain is so much less than someone elses pain... pain is always fleeting... and even if it is constant, it will end in death... etc"

    I am getting off track.

    In short: enlightenment should be achieved to serve others

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  2. #2
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    I like this. It has caused deep thinking of my own. I believe you are on the path to something good with this line of thinking Awani.
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

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    I will disagree here. You cannot expect to benefit others when you yourself are lost. I believe enlightenment IS a state of being but its hard to define when you are in such a state. It is a state which GREATLY benefits you and renders you capable of helping others, either by virtue of simply being in that state, or by actively working towards that goal.

    I don't think there is a single religion which preaches total selflesness. For example, you will never see a religion that says "the just will suffer for all eternity so that others may be saved". There is always some type of personal reward, be it peace of mind, tranquility etc.

    Now if there even is such a thing as losing your self by dissolving back into the Primordial Being, that is an entirely different discussion.

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    I don't think that was the point I made, IMO. More that when YOU achieve enlightenment it is to aid others... not yourself. And this is also the aim.

    May I attain enlightenment for the sake of all sentient beings.

    Also in the pursuit and action of compassion and help of others you might quicker also achieve enlightenment, in order to spread compassion. So it might also be a way to get there quicker. But yes as you say no one can EVER claim to be enlightened, because the very act of that claim instantly disqualify you from the enlightenment. IMO.

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

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    Regarding your other point about religion and selflesness.

    Maybe they are all wrong. And maybe the state of the world is the proof.

    There should not be a personal reward.

    It should not be about you (self) ever. Total complete servitude to your fellow man, no exception. Not even to the people who killed your family.

    What I am talking about here is HARDCORE. Not for the weak. Lol. Complete unconditional love require a powerful warrior. Such an individual is untouchable. Such an individual is a God. In fact there is no distinction between such a person and "god" at all. That is enlightenment.

    Yes, such a person would be rewarded with peace... but such a person would not even be aware of the reward.

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awani View Post
    What I am talking about here is HARDCORE. Not for the weak. Lol. Complete unconditional love require a powerful warrior. Such an individual is untouchable. Such an individual is a God. In fact there is no distinction between such a person and "god" at all. That is enlightenment.

    Yes, such a person would be rewarded with peace... but such a person would not even be aware of the reward.

    The strength to do nothing but serve, is not strength, it is slavery.
    A person who did nothing but totally sacrifice themselves, wouldn't be aware of the reward, because they wouldn't last long in the first place.
    One fatal tree there stands of knowledge called, forbidden them to taste. Knowledge forbidden? Suspicious. Reasonless. And why should their Lord envy them that? Can it be sin to know? Can it be death? And do they stand by ignorance, is that their happy state, the proof of their obedience and their faith?

  7. #7
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    May I attain enlightenment for the sake of all sentient beings.
    Boo Booo Boooo . Any desire to achieve this state or benefit from it for others or yourself is something you have to let go of to achieve it.
    More that when YOU achieve enlightenment it is to aid others... not yourself. And this is also the aim.
    It is not to aid anyone even yourself. There is no aim it is aimless.
    It is unattainable for those who seek it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kibric View Post
    Boo Booo Boooo . Any desire to achieve this state or benefit from it for others or yourself is something you have to let go of to achieve it.

    It is not to aid anyone even yourself. There is no aim it is aimless.
    It is unattainable for those who seek it.
    I tend to concur.

    It cannot have an agenda, regardless whether it's for "self" or for "others" - it's all equally "contaminated".

    When ALL agendas are gone -> it's more likely to be realized by itself.

    It's not something to seek, words cannot describe it, but the closest thing I can say is that it's a non-act of "surrender".

    Simply letting go, FULLY, and just "relaxing" into it... the Rest will take care of itself

    I've had very short glimpses of "it"... It can be quite scary if still holding on to stuff/agendas/theories of what it should be/etc... and I am (still) not able to fully let go and just RELAX into the Ocean

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    Simply letting go, FULLY, and just "relaxing" into it... the Rest will take care of itself
    The closest i can describe it, is when you are content just sitting in silence
    " Just be "
    I've had very short glimpses of "it"... It can be quite scary if still holding on to stuff/agendas/theories of what it should be/etc... and I am (still) not able to fully let go and just RELAX into the Ocean
    Preconceptions, identity , beliefs. All has to go.
    You recognise that your self who you are is an illusion. Like Plato's cave this life is a shadow on a wall.
    To let go fully you must be willing to accept that all your thoughts feelings ideas and personality are illusions.
    The mind craves an identity and until you let yours go the mind/ego cannot dissolve.

    If mind is the vessel and water the thought that takes the shape of the vessel when poured into it.
    Enlightenment is getting rid of the vessel. Formless.
    Last edited by Kibric; 3 Days Ago at 10:00 AM.

  10. #10
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    Maybe it arrives like a sucker punch... unexpected.
    But you won't get a sucker punch if you were not looking for troubles (of course, this is a metaphor).

    Maybe it is OK to have an agenda, it can be a stimulus or incentive, and then the agenda simply goes away.

    A long time ago a doctor got confused and told me I had a terminal cancer and just a few months to live (I didn't even have a tumor, but he got confused). He also said that a treatment was pointless and I should better enjoy my last moments. I lived for several months convinced that each second could be the last one. All my friends who knew about the situation were certainly sad. I was not. It was more like feeling "OK, it's fine". They were the most "enlightened" months of my whole life (quite hard to return to that feeling, though it was not exactly a feeling... maybe a reaction). It was strange, I got VERY confused when after some months another doctor told me that I had absolutely nothing. The feeling vanished.

    So maybe some things are not necessarily permanent and everything has its ups and downs.

    I like this trigger:


    I like this one 1,000 times more than the previous one:


    Quote Originally Posted by Kibric View Post
    . Like Plato's cave this life is a shadow on a wall.
    The man who got out of the cave willingly returned to the cave though... Getting out of the cave was not the "end" of his story for him, just the first half.

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