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Thread: Interesting Water Work Lineage

  1. #21
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    I need to withdraw my claim from the first post that the water work seems to be rather new.

    The idea of water being some kind of prima materia (or materia prima? Even "der kleine Bauer" seems to confuse the two somehow, reminds me of the possible switching of the words sulphur and mercury) on contrary seems to be very old.

    It goes back to the very first theory the alchemists refered on. It is by Thales of Miletus (6th century B.C.), who claimed that all the different substances around us are really modifications of a single primordial substance that he identified as water.

  2. #22
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    The philosophical basis of the Water Work surely reaches back into antiquity, but I am still uncertain when Alchemists began to regard 'celestial water' as an actual starting material for the Great Work. Some Arabic treatises already refer to dew, however, in what context, I do not know.

    The terms 'prima materia' and 'materia prima' are interchangeable, to my knowledge. This also dates back to ancient Greek natural philosophy, with its concept of 'proton hyle', of which 'prima materia' is a literal translation.
    Last edited by Michael Sternbach; 06-28-2018 at 11:59 PM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Sternbach View Post
    The philosophical basis of the Water Work surely reaches back into antiquity, but I am still uncertain when Alchemist began to regard 'celestial water' as an actual starting material for the Great Work. Some Arabic treatises already refer to dew, however, in what context, I do not know.

    The terms 'prima materia' and 'materia prima' are interchangeable, to my knowledge. This also dates back to ancient Greek natural philosophy, with its concept of 'proton hyle', of which 'prima materia' is a literal translation.
    The already quoted Turba Philosophorum already mentions "dew", and it is an Arabic work written around the 9th-10th century AD, but with Alexandrian/Byzantine origins. In other words, the alchemist who composed it based the text on older Greek language texts. But you can easily tell that actual dew is not what is meant. Dew is just common/vulgar/ordinary water with some organic/inorganic impurities dissolved in it. It will never coagulate into a permanent, "fixed" solid substance that penetrates into molten metals, unlike the "dew" the alchemists talk about. It's just one of the many "decknamen" that the alchemists used for their "water".

  4. #24
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    I am going to prove to you JDP, EMPIRICALLY, that your wrong about the dew.

    Within 6 months. Ill bet you $5.oo US that I can prove EMPIRICALLY that the dew is 'imbued' with something additional that your taking for granted.
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    I am going to prove to you JDP, EMPIRICALLY, that your wrong about the dew.

    Within 6 months. Ill bet you $5.oo US that I can prove EMPIRICALLY that the dew is 'imbued' with something additional that your taking for granted.
    I have already experimented with dew. You are wasting your time & money. There is nothing remotely "alchemical" about it.

  6. #26
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    There you have it, Elixirmixer.

    JDP couldn't find anything Alchemical with dew, therefore NO ONE can!

    Case closed.

    Move along.



    -----------------------

    6 months is a short time, Elixirmixer. How do you plan to operate with your materia?

  7. #27
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    but I am still uncertain when Alchemist began to regard 'celestial water' as an actual starting material for the Great Work.
    In Sumeria the priests were taught how to prepare the " Flower of Life " from the gods. They were not allowed to have the Flower itself, that was reserved for the gods
    but they were allowed to drink the water in which they prepared it.
    I can only imagine that would be the inception of a celestial water that an alchemist could physical handle.

    There is also a watery discharge from electrostatic fields created by two obelisks covered in electrum, that Egyptian High priests used for medicinal purposes.

    It goes back to the very first theory the alchemists refered on. It is by Thales of Miletus (6th century B.C.), who claimed that all the different substances around us are really modifications of a single primordial substance that he identified as water.
    If we were to find such a thing.
    What could we take away from the earth and still have life ?
    What are the fundamental substances all life on earth need to exist ?
    We could whittle down that list, to the essential elements needed to create life.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmuldvich View Post
    There you have it, Elixirmixer.

    JDP couldn't find anything Alchemical with dew, therefore NO ONE can!

    Case closed.

    Move along.



    -----------------------

    6 months is a short time, Elixirmixer. How do you plan to operate with your materia?
    Not surprised that you miss the point... again. It's not just me, it's the accumulated experience of centuries worth of all manner of seekers and experimenters. My experience is just one more in that long trail. Dew = dead end. Just like that "one matter" that you naively think it's going to lead you to success by "cooking" it for months and months. Same thing. Easy to predict that it's 99.9% sure you will fail. It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes. Anyone acquainted with history and provided with lots of common sense and empirical experience won't be surprised at all. Centuries worth of repeated failures by all manner of seekers trying to follow such a naive approach do not lie.

  9. #29
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    Dew = dead end
    Dew can't be entirely dismissed in alchemy.
    The practise of pouring water over stone idols came from the belief that when the water seaped out from the stone, it became a medicine.
    In Mooligai Karpam they scrape the morning dew off the stone idols as well and mix it with plants.

    Dew by itself maybe a alchemical dead end, but its been used in Thathu and Seeva Karpam ( Siddha alchemy ) for a long time.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kibric View Post
    Dew can't be entirely dismissed in alchemy.

    In Mooligai Karpam they scrape the morning dew off the stone idols as well and mix it with plants.

    Dew by itself maybe a alchemical dead end, but its been used in Thathu and Seeva Karpam ( Siddha alchemy ) for a long time.
    Ever left a quartz crystal sitting around? After a while, it seems to coat itself in an oily substance, but very little of it. I've never thought about collecting it.

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