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Thread: Interesting Water Work Lineage

  1. #41
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    Addendum II: In my experience, common dew and other such "waters" are by themselves very weak (alchemically speaking). Far from possessing the required potency.

    One may need quite big quantities and/or a long time and/or additional manipulations to achieve "something (somewhat) worthwhile".

    It's not impossible, but not really worth the time and effort, IMO - unless one really likes to experiment and tinker with stuff...

  2. #42
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    From Artephius

    .........that the matter may be filled with spirit from the air, and live.

    For naturally all things take life from the inbreathing of the air; and so
    also our magistery receives .......

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    Only your experiments will prove you right or wrong. You only have to prove it to yourself.
    One's mind isn't always a reliable judge. Some are sure the voices in their head are god's and tell them to kill other people.

    Sounds like you're complaining that people are not posting "clear operational steps". Well, life is not always fair

    Ask JDP if he would publicly post "clear operational steps" for a x10 or x100 projection powder
    No, I'm not complaining about the fairness of others or life in general. Neither am I complaining about hard work.
    It becomes critical when claiming things that can't be verified. And I'm not talking about the useless attempt to try to verify if one really has the voice of god in his mind or similar claims which simply can't be verified 100% true or false. But with nature's laws and it's matter's properties and reactions it's a different thing.


    You might as well complain to the old masters and good authors why they didn't give "complete operational steps" in their books. They were apparently afraid to be proven wrong, that must be the reason
    That is indeed a reason why alchemy is so facinating. The riddles are part of the game. It only seems that in posing more/similar new riddles nowadays, one can get the impression that some are just trying to raise themselves on the same level like the old masters. That is by many interpreted as an implausible move. Like those "Rockstar moves" some band members sport on those funny pictures in some magazines or music videos.


    And if you actually take the time and search the forums, you'll find quite a few rather detailed processes with dew and other "waters". Most of them focused on medicinal properties - but less so for transmutation, when common dew is involved.
    Yes, I have. And none of them I've seen so far convinced me. For example I can as well claim I was feeling sick the whole week until I ate a box of kleenex. So kleenex must be the panacea.


    PS: It is my personal belief that quite a few alchemical authors used code/cover words ("Decknamen") to mostly communicate with each other and less for the common reader/"outsider".
    Here I agree with you!

  4. #44
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    So, did ANY of the "water works" convince you enough to keep tinkering and experimenting with it?

    If so, which one(s)?

    Do you think some of them are BS? Do you think some of them are "legit"?

  5. #45
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    Quoth Kibric:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kibric
    Drinking dew


    Dew is rich in oxygen and great for the skin. If we apply morning dew to our skin within weeks we can look more youthful.
    Hermits have know for ages the benefits of drinking dew, and dew has always been seen as life sustaining through many cultures.
    Only now are scientists rediscovering there was method to their madness.

    "To the ancient Chinese, dew symbolized immortality, and was an important part of Taoist philosophy and practice. The Immortals of Taoism were said to be perfected beings who lived on mountains, fed on the wind, sipped the dew, and experienced ecstatic flight. It was believed that dew which formed around temples and at sacred places was especially beneficial. "

    Dew and Flower Essences
    http://www.floracopeia.com/education...ower-essences/

    Dew was also important to alchemists. Paracelsus collected it, alchemists experimented with it a few ways, and it found its way into Magick.

    "We have found in a “Magia Divina” the following directions for accomplishing a perpetuum mobile naturæ, the efficacy of which we leave for the reader to decide."

    “During the twelve nights after Christmas 1½ measures of dew are collected from fruit-trees, and preserved well enclosed. In the month of March dew is again collected from both fruit-trees and meadows and is preserved in another phial. Dew collected in May is poured in a third and rain of a thunderstorm during the summer in a fourth. Thereupon the contents of the four phials are mixed and one measure of it is poured into a great transparent glass retort where, well covered, it must remain a month until it becomes foul. Put it then over fire and subject to heat of the second degree. When sufficiently distilled a substance thick as honey is left. In this residue are poured four grains of astral tincture. The mixture is exposed to a heat of the first degree, by which it is converted into a thick, jet-black lump which again is dissolved, forming below an ink-like fluid, and above a vapor, in which many colors and figures are seen. These soon disappear, and every thing is changed into water, which begins to turn green, and green palaces, constantly enlarging, and mountains and lovely pastures appear, while the water is diminished more and more. When now you find that no more dew rises from the earth within the glass, take the water which you received from the distillation, mix with it a drachm of astral tincture and pour an ounce of this mixture into the glass bulb. Then every thing begins again to live and grow. Add every month an ounce of this mixture. If then the glass ball is well closed, and is not stirred, a vapor gradually arises, and is condensed into two shining stars, like the sun and the moon, and like the latter, one of these stars waxes and wanes; and all the phenomena of nature, thunder, lightning, hail, rain, snow and dew, will appear in your glass ball as in the real world around you. All this will happen if you keep the great Creator before your eyes and in your heart, and if you conceal from the wicked world this great secret.”

    http://www.gutenberg.org/files/39608...-h/39608-h.htm

    Dew is a vital ingredient for a hermit using the natural world to achieve longevity.
    Learning how to collect dew is one of the first things to master, if you are going to survive as a hermit.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by black View Post
    From Artephius

    .........that the matter may be filled with spirit from the air, and live.

    For naturally all things take life from the inbreathing of the air; and so
    also our magistery receives .......
    He was speaking analogically here. Let's look at the whole passage in context:

    It appears then, that this composition is not a work of hands, but a change of the natures; because nature dissolves and joins itself, sublimes and lifts itself up, and grows white, being separated from the feces. And in such a sublimation the more subtile, pure, and essential parts are conjoined; for that with the fiery nature or property lifts up the subtile parts, it separates always the more pure, leaving the grosser at the bottom. Wherefore your fire ought to be gentle and a continual vapor, with which you sublime, that the matter may be filled with spirit from the air, and live. For naturally all things take life from the inbreathing of the air; and so also our magistery receives in the vapor or spirit, by the sublimation of the water.

    Our brass or latten then, is to be made to ascend by the degrees of fire, but of its own accord, freely, and without violence; except the body therefore be by the fire and water broken, or dissolved, and attenuated, until it ascends as a spirit, or climbs like argent vive, or rather as the white soul, separated from the body, and by sublimation diluted or brought into a spirit, nothing is or can be done. But when it ascends on high, it is born in the air or spirit, and is changed into spirit; and becomes life with life, being only spiritual and incorruptible. And by such an operation it is that the body is made spirit, of a subtile nature, and the spirit is incorporated with the body, and made one with it; and by such a sublimation, conjunction, and raising up, the whole, both body and spirit are made white.


    He is comparing the things that he thought were happening in the "macrocosm" (i.e. the world we live in) with those happening in the "microcosm" (i.e. things happening between the interacting substances within the glass vessels used in the alchemical operations), he certainly is not saying anything about the common air we breathe supposedly being involved in the operations.

    BTW, the same author also has an analogical passage on dew, more suitable for this thread:

    For it is a living water which comes to moisten the earth, that it may spring out, and in its due season bring forth much fruit; for all things springing from the earth, are endued through dew and moisture. The earth therefore springeth not forth without watering and moisture; it is the water proceeding from May dew that cleanseth the body; and like rain it penetrates them, and makes one body of two bodies. This aqua vite or water of life, being rightly ordered and disposed with the body, it whitens it, and converts or changes it into its white color, for this water is a white vapor, and there- fore the body is whitened with it. It behoves you therefore to whiten the body, and open its unfoldings, for between these two, that is between the body and the water, there is desire and friendship, like as between male and female, because of the propinquity and likeness of their natures.

    Once again, these are simply analogies. He is not by any means suggesting that you should actually think that the "spirit" or "water" he is talking about is actually common dew. He is just comparing the action of the secret solvent (i.e. the "dew", "water" or "spirit") on the metallic matters (i.e. the "earth" or "body") he dissolves and then "cooks" in it until they are "radically" united to what he thought was the action of actual dew on actual earth. In his mind the analogy was valid. Today we can just point & giggle in his direction since we know that the things he was using as analogies worked in an entirely different way than the alchemical operations he was describing (dew does not have any such radical effects on the earth itself as he fancied. How organisms seem to "grow out of the earth" was still quite misunderstood in those times. For example, people still took the ramblings of the Bible as some sort of "law", so the fact that in this huge collection of totally uncorroborated fairy tales it is said that a seed must "die" and "putrefy" inside the earth in order for plants to spring forth was enough to be quoted or paraphrased very seriously as if it was a "fact".) Remember that one of the biggest flaws of the alchemists was to fancy themselves "philosophers". A lot of them had a peculiar obsession about projecting the things they were doing in their labs onto the "macrocosm" and tried to derive general conclusions about how the world supposedly worked from the specific things going on inside their lab vessels with the set of specific substances they worked with. That's how all these faulty analogies came to be. In order to properly understand them, though, you need to also understand natural science as they understood it back then. To them they made sense. Today we can just laugh at these naive "analogies". We have the benefit of much more accumulated empirical facts about the world that surrounds us. Still, their theoretical flaws do not take away the validity of their actual empirical discoveries & observations (i.e. the ones going on inside their flasks, retorts, alembics, crucibles, etc.)

  7. #47
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    Hey JDP

    He was speaking analogically here.
    YES ... he was. But can you see that there could be more layers of understanding
    hidden discretely within this analogy.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by black View Post
    Hey JDP



    YES ... he was. But can you see that there could be more layers of understanding
    hidden discretely within this analogy.
    No. It's just an analogy, nothing else. The guy was not suggesting that you can make the Stone with common air or dew.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    So, did ANY of the "water works" convince you enough to keep tinkering and experimenting with it?

    If so, which one(s)?

    Do you think some of them are BS? Do you think some of them are "legit"?
    I already answered these questions in this thread and elsewhere.
    However I repeat that I'm after interesting observations, which I think most of those writers from the 17th and 18th century may have made with actual dew (it's impurities).
    I won't go so far as claiming the products have medicinical or transmutation values without sensible testing.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florius Frammel View Post
    And here my theory about dew comes in play.
    Maybe some felt pity for those poor men losing everything and gave the guys a cheap occupation.
    Note: I would have nothing against the possibility that the true universal in fact is about dew. It would have quite some obvious advantages.
    But what would be the point? It does NOT work. It's just another false lead. The dew-pushers are just as bad as all the other phony process peddlers. And also there is nothing "cheap" about heating dew or any other useless commonly available substance for months and months. Plus you already pointed out yourself, as anyone who has collected dew also knows, that even though it is technically "free" it takes a lot of labor and time to collect large amounts of it. At the end of all the useless operations with it, even if they would not cost anything, you would still have wasted your time, which is actually more precious than money.

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