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Thread: Following z0 K's claims on destructive distillation of herbs

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    Following z0 K's claims on destructive distillation of herbs

    Quote Originally Posted by z0 K View Post
    Take an herb such as Celandine (mentioned by Ripley and recommended by Hollandus) treat it as the Green Lyon in JDP's quote. Process it as Ripley outlines using only the matters you get from the distillation. See if that doesn't transform your opinion into your experience.
    Ok. Sometimes doing is easier than thinking. So, here is the z0 K - style kiln:



    Instead of Celandine I used Melissa. Here is the Ripley's quote:

    Take the Green Lyon without dissolution in Vinegar (as sometime the Custom is) put in a large Earthen Retort, which can endure the Fire, and distil it the same way as you distil Aqua fortis, putting a Receiver under it, and luting the joint well, that it may not respire; then distil first with a gentle Fire, till you see white fumes appear, then change the Receiver, stopping it well and distil with a great Fire so as Aqua fortis is distilled, thus continuing twenty-four hours, and if you continue the Fire the space of eight Days, you will see the Receiver always full of white fumes, and so you will have the Blood of the Green Lyon, which we call Secret Water, and Acetum accerimum, by which all Bodies are reduced to their first Matter, and the Body of Man preserved from all infirmities.
    Up to 400 deg F it seems that the water comes over. Above that a white fume appears condensing into a transparent oil. Also brown oil appears. Up to 750 F the white fume continues and condensation is a black oil. 1200F was the maximum temperature. Not much seem to happen between 1000 and 1200 F. Just a white fume circulating around. Also a transparent salt appears in small quantity.

    I captured two distillates. One up to 570 F and the other from 570 up to 1200 F, trying to follow Ripley's instructions. As I understand it, the good stuff is in the second distillate. I'm curious on how to test it on steel and copper as z0 K has stated:

    Quote Originally Posted by z0 K View Post
    With one concentration stainless steel can be resolved into a light green whitish crystalline salt. Copper goes down easily into beautiful deep blue crystals.
    Z0 K, what is the next step? Can it be used directly as it is? I'm curious about the copper dissolution!

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    Quote Originally Posted by theFool View Post
    Ok. Sometimes doing is easier than thinking. So, here is the z0 K - style kiln:



    Instead of Celandine I used Melissa. Here is the Ripley's quote:



    Up to 400 deg F it seems that the water comes over. Above that a white fume appears condensing into a transparent oil. Also brown oil appears. Up to 750 F the white fume continues and condensation is a black oil. 1200F was the maximum temperature. Not much seem to happen between 1000 and 1200 F. Just a white fume circulating around. Also a transparent salt appears in small quantity.

    I captured two distillates. One up to 570 F and the other from 570 up to 1200 F, trying to follow Ripley's instructions. As I understand it, the good stuff is in the second distillate. I'm curious on how to test it on steel and copper as z0 K has stated:

    Z0 K, what is the next step? Can it be used directly as it is? I'm curious about the copper dissolution!
    Nice work! Check the pH of the first distillate. You have to purify the water/tar. Several ways have been written about by the adepts. I usually separate the water from the tar by separatory funnel. Then check the pH. Distill the water 7 to 10 times at BM temp. Keep the feces for later. What does the transparent salt smell like?

    There won't be much effect with that water on steel. It is too weak at the beginning. I got the reactions with steel with liquid Armoniac which is a milky looking material and very hard to keep in that state. The reaction on copper was with soot distillate.

    You could try to distill the distillates from the pyro-distillation at BM temp through a copper condenser. If the Armoniac spirit in it is strong enough then the copper will react with it in the condenser pipe. You don't need to water cool the copper pipe. I don't think the Melissa distillates will be naturally strong enough without purification and concentration. If you do get a blue spirit through the copper pipe seal it up very tightly and keep in a fridge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by z0 K View Post
    Nice work!
    Thanks Mr. Z and also thanks for the advices!

    Quote Originally Posted by z0 K View Post
    Check the pH of the first distillate.
    It is acidic (pH around 3). As is, it is not strong enough to dissolve steel.

    Quote Originally Posted by z0 K View Post
    What does the transparent salt smell like?
    Unfortunatelly I couldn't differentiate its smell from the overwhelming, nauseating strong smell of the oils around it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by theFool View Post
    Thanks Mr. Z and also thanks for the advices!

    It is acidic (pH around 3). As is, it is not strong enough to dissolve steel.

    Unfortunatelly I couldn't differentiate its smell from the overwhelming, nauseating strong smell of the oils around it.
    The receiver should be changed around 400F in the future. The acid water changes the Armoniac pathway so you don't get much sublimed Sal Armoniac which happens starting around 700 to 800F depending on the herb used. Hollandus called it "evil moisture."

    The pyro-tars are foul and will make you feel ill if you breath it too much. It is crude Vegetable Sulfur. It has to be purified. Which Hollandus tells how to do but not directly. You have to discover it while failing to achieve the results Hollandus describes for the purified oil following the method he details. He is very clever. If you do not see it in the lab you will never know what it is just reading his vegetable works.

    Ripley gives less details for processing but good descriptions of the products along the way. You have the products he describes, but he takes an alternate path and keeps the distillates together and putrefies them at sand bath heat sealed tight for a month until they become

    "like unto butter and are made all one thing without any distinction or difference. When thou hast brought thy work to this pass, thank God, and be glad that through his Grace and mercy thou hast obtained our Chaos dark and mistie, which is the true one Thing written of by all the Philosophers, our confused mass, and the prime ground of all our Secrets, for therein lieth invisible couched, our Gold and Silver, our Sulphur and Mercuries, our Christalline Water, our Oils and Tinctures, and our four Elements which thou must make visible and apparant to all seeing eyes, else can nothing be effected, neither shalt thou ever obtain thy wished for silvery and golden desire. " Liber Secretissimus
    Last edited by z0 K; 08-17-2018 at 09:16 PM. Reason: clarity

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    Quote Originally Posted by z0 K View Post
    Ripley gives less details for processing but good descriptions of the products along the way. You have the products he describes, but he takes an alternate path and keeps the distillates together and putrefies them at sand bath heat sealed tight for a month until they become
    Ripley is not talking about any such thing. By quoting out of context, anyone can try to manipulate any writer's statements into saying virtually anything anyone wants. In the proper context, though, anyone can plainly see he is obviously talking about the INITIAL ARTIFICIAL MIXTURE that constitutes the so-called matter or "chaos" of the alchemists, and not the product of distilling any simple, single natural matter, like any plant:

    Take our Artificial Antimony, but not the Natural Antimony as it comes out of the Earth, for that is too dry for our work, and hath little or no humidity, or fatness in it, but take as I say, our Artificial Antimonial Compound, which is abundantly replenished with the Dew of Heaven and the fatness and unctuosity of the earth, wherein precious Oils and rich Mercuries are by Nature closely sealed up, and hidden from the eyes of all ignorant deriders of the great and wonderful mysteries of Almighty God, to the end that seeing they should not see, nor understand, what he hath enclosed in the most obvious, common, and contemptible beginnings of all Things in the whole World.

    This our Antimonial Compound is only to be revealed to the Children of Art, who firmly believe the constant truth thereof, and whom in all fraternal love and charity we say, that it is made of one Sulphur, and of two Mercuries, which otherwise by the wise Philosophers are called, the Sun, Moon, and Mercury, or as some of them will more plainly have it, Salt, Sulphur, and Mercury, which are the three several and distinct substances and bodies, although for the most part we term them but one Thing, because in the conclusion of our work they make but one Thing, that is our admirable Elixir, and they have alone original, and tend altogether but to one end. For if we had not in our Work a triune aspect of these Planets, and did not begin it with a Trinity, all would be lost labour and inutilous profile.

    Wherefore if thou wilt thrive in our Art, we wish thee to begin with our Mineral Trinity, whereof this our Artificial Antimonial compound is made. Take then first in the prime beginning of thy Work, these three noble Kinsmen, who are immediately inbued with all the strong and subtile qualities of the four Elements, and in their due and most natural proportions, (in which proportions see thou do not erre, for if thou do, thou shalt never reduce those bodies into our true Chaos, and so thou wilt be constrained to begin again, which will be a most tedious discouragement unto thee). Put them into a good and strong cucurbit, or glass body, and close it well on the Top, that none of the spirits exhale, for if they find a Vent to evaporate, thou art undone, because thereby thou loosest and wasteth the flowers of our Gold. When thy Vessel is well closed, put it in the Philosophers’ Oven, and set it in Ashes or sand, with a temperate fire under it, for the space of a Philosophers’ Month, which is six whole weeks, and in that time our grosse bodies will be dissolved and mortified and made fit to begin a more royal generation.

    In this time of dissolution and putrefaction our three noble Kinsmen, most unnaturally become the immane homicides of each other, for they spare not with all cruelty to extract each others vital blood, and are stewed in their own proper gores, and become soft and tender, like unto butter, and are made all one thing without any difference, or distinction. When thou hast brought thy work to this pass, thank God, and be glad that through his Grace and mercy thou hast obtained our Chaos dark and mistie, which is the true one Thing written of by all the Philosophers, our confused mass, and the prime ground of all our Secrets, for therein lieth invisible couched, our Gold and Silver, our Sulphur and Mercuries, our Christalline Water, our Oils and Tinctures, and our four Elements which thou must make visible and apparent to all seeing eyes, else can nothing be effected, neither shalt thou ever obtain thy wished for silvery and golden desire.


    In their proper context, these passages couldn't be any clearer. Anyone who bizarrely wants to see in the above very clear and unequivocal statements the distillation of any plant, or soot, or any other simple single matter whatsoever is simply deluding himself or trying to delude others into blind alleys. Ripley, like all other alchemists, plainly worked with mixtures/composites of several carefully chosen substances, the interaction between which gave the products/byproducts they describe. Ripley in particular worked with three substances, as he plainly explains in the above quoted text. Some other alchemists actually used more (for example, his 15th century English "colleague", Thomas Norton, used 4.)

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    copper dissolution

    The second distillate (high temperature) was put upon a copper wire. After few hours it did change its color to blue... Obviously it dissolved some of the copper. However, the rest of the wire was intact. The dissolution resembles much the formation of copper-ammonia complexes. I wouldn't be surprised if ammonia was distilled out of the herb and it obviously created this blue solution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by theFool View Post
    The second distillate (high temperature) was put upon a copper wire. After few hours it did change its color to blue... Obviously it dissolved some of the copper. However, the rest of the wire was intact. The dissolution resembles much the formation of copper-ammonia complexes. I wouldn't be surprised if ammonia was distilled out of the herb and it obviously created this blue solution.
    Nothing "unusual" about any of this, indeed. As I pointed out in another thread, even at least as far back as the Jabirian texts (8th-9th century AD), it was known that you could get such products/byproducts from the distillation of animal and plant matters. But none of them by themselves will ever, not even in a million years, produce the secret solvent or the Stone. You can get some useful basic substances that could be used in the work, but by themselves they will just not cut it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by theFool View Post
    The second distillate (high temperature) was put upon a copper wire. After few hours it did change its color to blue... Obviously it dissolved some of the copper. However, the rest of the wire was intact. The dissolution resembles much the formation of copper-ammonia complexes. I wouldn't be surprised if ammonia was distilled out of the herb and it obviously created this blue solution.
    Yes it is a copper ammonia complex. Since you got the reaction I would say you have a good amount of Armoniac in the Elements you received from the destructive distillation of Melissa. It is not the same as a copper ammonia complex made with store bought ammonia distilled through a copper sponge or wool. They look similar but the aroma of the Armoniac copper complex is very sharp and has a spiritual effect if you take a whiff. The store bought preparation smells putrid and no spiritual effect. I've made the comparison.

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    TF, this was the result of distilled GW (ammonia) on copper.



    Ghislain

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    Pretty blue. What do you do with it?

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