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Thread: Arnold de Villeneuve Le Rosaire des Philosophes

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    I For those who can understand Spanish, there is an excellent modern Spanish translation made directly from the original Latin:
    https://www.amazon.com/Rosario-Los-F.../dp/8489768064
    But since it is out-of-print the copies you can find nowadays for sale are absurdly expensive.
    Probably in Amazon, but if you look into Spanish speaking bookstores, all the books of that collection are easy to find and they are expensive, but not "absurdly expensive" (maybe 35 or 40 dollars).

    Have you seen that specific translation? That publishing house is weird... they have both very good books and terrible books (terrible as in mutilated, sometimes books heavily based on illustrations being published without any illustration... and sometimes indirect translations in which the source is quite obvious -i.e, Latin and Spanish have the same "root" for a lot of words... and yet some "Latin translations" are obviously Latin-to-English and then English-to-Spanish).

    Then again, they also have very good books... but I don't "blindly trust" that specific publishing house. Sometimes they are good, sometimes a disaster. Have you seen by yourself this specific book?

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoas23 View Post
    Probably in Amazon, but if you look into Spanish speaking bookstores, all the books of that collection are easy to find and they are expensive, but not "absurdly expensive" (maybe 35 or 40 dollars).

    Have you seen that specific translation? That publishing house is weird... they have both very good books and terrible books (terrible as in mutilated, sometimes books heavily based on illustrations being published without any illustration... and sometimes indirect translations in which the source is quite obvious -i.e, Latin and Spanish have the same "root" for a lot of words... and yet some "Latin translations" are obviously Latin-to-English and then English-to-Spanish).

    Then again, they also have very good books... but I don't "blindly trust" that specific publishing house. Sometimes they are good, sometimes a disaster. Have you seen by yourself this specific book?
    Yes, I have a copy of it. It was translated directly from Latin by a Catalan "licenciado" in Latin philology: Joan Borrell.

    I find the majority of the stuff published by Indigo to be nicely done, actually.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    I found the table of contents for Calvet's book, it confirms that it does indeed have a French translation of the "Rosary" attributed to Villanova:

    https://www.academia.edu/34300974/Le...ge._Paris_2011

    See the "TEXTES ET TRADUCTIONS DES ŒUVRES ANALYSÉES" section.
    Actually, it mentions the Rosaruius Philosophorum which might be the woodcut version, not the major Rosay.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    I think you are going to be rather disappointed when you can fully read it. The author maliciously makes it look as if he is talking about gold & silver amalgams with metallic mercury. You can easily tell he is lying through his teeth, though, since he also describes such things as red liquids being involved in the operations, which are simply impossible to obtain by working with actual metallic amalgams only. The "Book of Washings" attributed to Nicolas Flamel uses the exact same tactic: trying to convince you (i.e. lure you into a road that leads nowhere but certain failure) real hard that he is talking about metallic mercury and its amalgams with gold & silver, yet he also describes such things as sublimates, "stinking/fetid" liquids and white/red "oils" involved in the operations, which are simply impossible to be obtained by manipulating amalgams only. Misleading bastards!

    Of the alchemical works attributed to Villanova that I have read so far, the most interesting is the "Mirror of Alchemy", which is very different from the text by the same title attributed to Roger Bacon. It takes the form of a dialogue between a master and a disciple. It also has an interesting brief description of a "particular" for turning silver into gold, performed with "the oil Duenech" (i.e. a form of the secret solvent.)
    If this is misleading, then we can also conclude that Philalethes, Hermetic Recreations, Naturweg, Cyliani, John Plamer and Fulcanelli were also misleading, since they were all based on the principles expressed by Villa Nova.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    Yes, I have a copy of it. It was translated directly from Latin by a Catalan "licenciado" in Latin philology: Joan Borrell.

    I find the majority of the stuff published by Indigo to be nicely done, actually.
    Actually, the Spanish version differs somewhat from the French version. It seems to be a loosely adopted version. Or is it that the French version is a loosely adopted version from the Latin? I'm not to clear on this. Which is more accurate?

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illen A. Cluf View Post
    Actually, the Spanish version differs somewhat from the French version. It seems to be a loosely adopted version. Or is it that the French version is a loosely adopted version from the Latin? I'm not to clear on this. Which is more accurate?
    I haven't looked at that old French version, but I have compared the Spanish translation with the Latin text published in many 16th-17th century editions and it is an accurate translation of it.
    Last edited by JDP; 09-30-2018 at 08:02 AM.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illen A. Cluf View Post
    If this is misleading, then we can also conclude that Philalethes, Hermetic Recreations, Naturweg, Cyliani, John Plamer and Fulcanelli were also misleading, since they were all based on the principles expressed by Villa Nova.
    I really don't see much connection between these texts and Arnold's "Rosary". That text is very misleading with all its apparent talk about metallic mercury and amalgams. Even "Philalethes" insinuates more intricate manipulations with mercury than the extremely vulgar things the author of the "Rosary" claims if you interpret his words 100% literally (his "preparation" of mercury consists in subliming it with some salts and then reducing it back to running mercury in "hot water"; but this is in itself a trap, as no matter how hot you make ordinary water, it will not reduce this mercuric salt back into a running mercury; Weidenfeld points this out and warns about the "foul play" in this passage.) But like I said, it's obviously a trap. The things the author describes simply can't be achieved by manipulating amalgams alone. Who has ever prepared any red liquid, for example, by manipulating metallic amalgams???? Nobody, that's who!

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP View Post
    I haven't looked at that old French version, but I have compared the Spanish translation with the Latin text published in many 16th-17th editions and it is an accurate translation of it.
    Well, not really. For example, I have the Latin version, as well as the old French and Spanish versions. Both Latin and old French versions start with the Table of Contents (listing the chapters). The Spanish version does not include this. Also, the introduction is different.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illen A. Cluf View Post
    Actually, it mentions the Rosaruius Philosophorum which might be the woodcut version, not the major Rosay.
    No, there's just no way that Calvet could have made such an elemental mistake. The guy is a scholar of Arnold of Villanova and his alleged connection with alchemy. It is his area. His translation is of the 14th century "Rosary" attributed to Villanova, not the 16th century German text with the figures.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illen A. Cluf View Post
    Well, not really. I have the Latin version, and both the Latin and French versions both start with the Table of Contents (listing the chapters). The Spanish version does not include this.
    The Spanish version has the table of contents at the end. The content of the text is the exact same one as the Latin editions.

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