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Thread: Morning Star

  1. #11
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    Is that picture on earth or...ah it's the sun ?

  2. #12
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    Do you mean the painting by Champagne?

    It seems a bit cut on the edges and the qualitiy is in rather low resolution but there seem to be indeed only six heavenly bodies displayed.
    It could indeed be a (black) sun imo. Any ideas about the crystal structure the vaisseau sits in? Looks like ice. I don't think it refers to the platonic body (the cube), as it rather looks like rectangles.

    BTW. I think there are quite some interesting similarities and differences between the last three images I posted.
    Last edited by Florius Frammel; 10-25-2018 at 09:25 AM.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awani View Post
    I'm no authority, but I don't think Lucifer and Demiurge are one and the same.
    Your/my/our personal opinion is indeed important in certain aspects/ways (imo ). Especially spiritually.

    You can as well research historical believe systems and excluding these personal viewpoints as much as possible (problem of objectivity) and some sources say, that in some circles at certain points in time this lucifer/demiurge connection was indeed the case.

    A third layer or level is the usability of these kind of symbols for practical lab work.

    Therefore I can't agree when some say that spirituality has nothing to do with lab practice, because of the fact that from a certain point in time some people decided to code lab instructions in a way that can be interpreted in those both (and even more) ways. To get an idea it is imo not only necessary to study the personal meaning of the symbols alone, but as well in the historical context to eventually grasp an idea of the possible lab practice.

    Another question is, if the metaphysical "load" is really necessary for lab practice. Or if it can be done or described without. Some things seem to indicate that it's not necessary (like A.E. Waite noticed in his work I have yet to read).
    Last edited by Florius Frammel; 10-25-2018 at 10:45 AM.

  4. #14
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    Venus is the equivalent of copper, just as Mars is the equivalent of Iron. The symbols are interchangeable. In Coleridge's Magnum Opus of Alchemy, The Rime of the Ancient Mariner (book is coming soon) (also - hey - an Iron Maiden song), the key to the work, after the albatross "perches for Vespers Nine" (think Garden of Hesperides / philosopher's garden / Garden of Eden) but ALSO Venus as Vesper opposite Lucifer. Now the following stanza comes up:

    All in a hot and COPPER sky
    The bloody sun at noon
    Right up above the mast did stand
    No bigger than the moon

    Here we have copper (Venus) and the sun (bloody as the Green Lyon / copper devours it and it therefore bleeds) and the moon (foreshadowing an eclipse and Conjunction)

    But then later we have No Twilight (Hesperus/Vesper) within the courts of the sun to be followed by "The horned moon with ... One bright star within the nether tip". This star is Lucifer. Perhaps not the Lucifer of Jacob Boehme or Georg Von Welling (even though Coleridge studied Boehme thoroughly)

  5. #15
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    Also it should be noted that Ptah, the Demiurge of the Egyptians, "moulded the sun and moon; he shaped the universe and hammered out the copper sky" (Donald A. Mackenzie, Myths of Babylonia and Assyria - With Historical Narrative & Comparative Notes)

  6. #16
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    Do you mean the painting by Champagne?

    It seems a bit cut on the edges and the qualitiy is in rather low resolution but there seem to be indeed only six heavenly bodies displayed.
    It could indeed be a (black) sun imo. Any ideas about the crystal structure the vaisseau sits in? Looks like ice. I don't think it refers to the platonic body (the cube), as it rather looks like rectangles.
    Yes.
    The surface of the sphere has different depths of shading, it looks to me like the surface is covered in crystal hidden in shadow.
    The allusion being to a liquid crystal of some sort which in the vessel. If it's a planet, Venus ? what liquid crystal is on its surface that's so important ?.
    The rings around the woman look like a representation of an EM field. I think the cosmic nature of the picture is not metaphorical.
    My gut says the whole picture is alluding to a liquid crystal found on the surface of a planet.

  7. #17
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    In those times they did not know what's on another planet. Even today it's difficult to look through the very dense clouds of venus. So I'm pretty sure it's almost all metaphorical.

    The skull-like substance inside the vaisseau can be of further interest I think.
    Quite some alchemists, old and new, claim that if one uses common fire or vulgar corrosives the matter is killed/dead. Some even say it is dead from the moment you take it out of the earth (the womb). Some interpret this in a way that these manipulations must be avoided. Alchemy deals with "living substances" after all.

    But here one gets the impression, that this is exactly what is wanted and needed at this stage of this alchemical process. This stage it seems was known by Canseliet and Champagne too.

    Compare the ingredient of the three vaisseaus. I find it pretty interesting and revealing, considering certain methods that are often discussed when talking about the Fulcanelli lineage.

  8. #18
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    The Hollow Oak is defined by Dom Pernety as follows:

    Chêne creux. Fourneau des Sages. La Fable parle d'un chêne creux contre lequel Cadmus perça le dragon qui avait dévoré ses compagnons. La lance qu'employa Cadmus est le feu, le serpent signifie le mercure. Le chêne creux étant le fourneau secret des Sages, on voit pourquoi les Anciens l'avaient consacré à Rhéa, femme de Saturne.

    Pernety has the many different Vessels (Vaisseau and Vase), one of which as follows:

    VAISSEAU D'HERMES. C'est la terre des Philosophes, qui renferme et cache leur feu. Marie, la Prophétesse, dit dans son Dialogue avec Aros que le vaisseau d'Hermès n'est autre que la mesure du feu Philosophique.

    If you follow each tip of the seven-pointed star of Azoth in sequence (ie draw it out and see which tip your pen hits next) you advance on each day of the week. You start with Gold (Sun day), then Luna (Lundi or Moonday Monday), then Iron (Marsday Mardi Tuesday), then Mercury (Mercury Day Mercredi Wednesday), then Tin (Jupiter Day Jeudi Thursday Thor's day) then Copper (Venus Day Vendredi Friday Frida's Day) then Lead (Saturn Day Saturday) then back around once again to Gold (Sun day). This completes the seven points of Azoth. In the upper left corner you have the sun (representing sulphur in this case), in the upper right the moon (representing mercury of the philosophers but not vulgar mercury) and finally you have Plato's cube below which the Rosicrucians knew as Plato's Length X Breadth = Depth which you will see in their images of two branches held out by a man standing on the sun and woman standing on the moon and then the cross-product or poynting vector (Jacob Boehme's Cross-Birth) which is the equivalent of the two invisible forces (sulfur and mercury) coming together to yield that which is visible (E X H = see the Poynting Vector in Maxwell's Equations)). When the E field CROSSES the H field the intersection is the point of the electromagnetic wave which at high enough frequency is visible light. The LIGHT is born on the CROSS. SALT then, being the product of sulfur and mercury, is the analogy to light. It is equally a cubic form.

  9. #19
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    "He can often be seen with his scythe and an hourglass."

    Cronus / Saturn represents time, and also rebirth. The scythe is for the harvest. Whereas Venus represents Love and Mars represents Conflict. "The Mythe of Mars and Venus is a physiosopheme and the Journey of Jove to the blameless Ethiopians and the circling River Oceanos, are mixt Symbols, (or Symbols grounded on allegory, & picture-words.)" - Coleridge

    By which COleridge means that Vulcan's Net (the purple alloy of metallic antimony and copper) was coded as mythology (physiosopheme) so that adepts might benefit from thsi wisdom. Venus is copper, Mars is Iron. Vulcan's Net is descriptive of the physical appearance of the resulting alloy from combining them in such a fashion as is allegorically suggested by the mythology, knowledge which theoretically dates back all the way to Tubal-Cain or other ancient adepts.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coleridgean View Post
    Gold (Sun day), then Luna (Lundi or Moonday Monday), then Iron (Marsday Mardi Tuesday), then Mercury (Mercury Day Mercredi Wednesday), then Tin (Jupiter Day Jeudi Thursday Thor's day) then Copper (Venus Day Vendredi Friday Frida's Day) then Lead (Saturn Day Saturday) then back around once again to Gold (Sun day).
    Word studies are always fun. Thanks for sharing this, Coleridgean!

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