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Thread: The Cosmic Joke

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awani View Post
    Most of us have come across the concept of the Cosmic Joke, and there are many ways to look at it. This is my version. If any get an impression of authority or omnipotent knowledge in what follow, please look in the mirror and see a fool as big as I.

    Now I have found when talking to people about the Cosmic Joke that many find it offensive. They do not like to be part of a joke, and they certainly do not like to think of the sufferings of the world as a joke. They think that is completely offensive. On my part I think they have utterly misunderstood the joke itself… and that – in itself – is also part of the joke. We will never understand anything, nor will we ever get answers no matter how much we demand them. We are in the infinite totality of the Mystery. This can, for some, be difficult to accept. Language is a weak tool, yet it is all we currently have … at least that is what we think is all that we have, and the irony is that language is also the very thing that keeps us from understanding the joke.

    Etymologically joke is a word that has its roots in other words like “to say”, “express”, “confess” and “language”. So in a sense “joke” is a word that is the very representation of communication and the joke is often told by a jester i.e. the Fool. In the Tarot tradition the Fool is often numbered a zero,* like the Mystery all around us, it is of a circular quality. In the Ouroboros the zero is that ancient symbol depicting a serpent, or dragon, eating its own tail. And in many indigenous cultures around the world the Serpent, or the Dragon, is the World… the Universe… a physical representation of the All because they guard the sacred temples and holy spaces.

    Like in the famous story of the Garden of Eden, the Serpent is the one that is trying to liberate Adam and Eve by eating the forbidden fruit and seeing the truth: that the Creator imprisoned the Divine Mystery in materiality. The journey of the Fool is a journey through the great mysteries of life and the human archetypes… and by default the Fool will become the one that finds the Holy Grail just like Percival did when he began as a fool and ended up as the new Grail King. The Jester is, in terms of an archetype, Hermes, Mercurial, Shamanic and an artist. For instance amongst the Lakota People the Jester is the Heyůkȟa, which is a kind of sacred clown. In numerous reports about DMT experiences the Jester is a well-known character that often greets the psychonaut. I am simplifying this model to a large degree but in essence this is it. Author Alan Moore said it best:

    “Artists use lies to tell the truth.”

    As does the Jester, the Shaman and the Fool (even if the Fool might do it unknowingly in his tendency to be a fool). What I am trying to explain is that the ambassador for the Cosmic Joke on Earth is the Clown… in whatever shape or form this clown takes (which are infinite). In the 60s the hippies used to call people – who wore suits, took their office jobs seriously and followed every rule and regulation put forth by the State – squares. They were squares, not a circle like the Fool.

    A war is a joke. A rape is a joke. But it does not mean the victims should be laughed at, and it does not imply that any suffering is subject for ridicule. What it does however imply is that none of it is real, and that is the joke. Although it does not mean that it is not real, and that is also the joke. Again it is circular in nature, everything is. An “as above, so below” perspective of existence is the most comprehensive map we can have at our disposal. The only truth we can ever hope to experience is direct experience, that is the only thing that is “real”. Anything else is hearsay, rumor, projection or objectification. And what is funny is that the direct experience is not really real, however it seems and feels very real indeed… and in fact the more suffering we experience the more real it seems to be.

    People that win the lottery, or meet their hero or experience something wonderful often comment that it felt “unreal”… almost like they were walking on a cloud. Like love… to be fully wrapped in love can feel dizzying. To experience an amazing concert can make time stand still… to orgasm can cause the mind to almost zone out. The wonderful almost feels dream-like. The horrible is as real as jumping into an icy river. Sometimes when the suffering is so bad that it is unbearable it too can drift into amnesia and dream-like states, which is why shamans use such techniques to enter ecstatic states like excessive dancing, heavy breathing or even self-flagellation.

    The true reality is not quantifiable. Like a dream it cannot be grasped, touched or fully described… it can only be experienced. And the only way to experience this kind of reality is to be in the moment of the direct experience... and in that No man's land between the illusion and the illusion of the illusion lies the Divine Mystery. This kind of experience can come naturally in a moment of joy, or through focused suffering or by using some shamanic methods.

    Whenever I have some physical pain, like a toothache for instance, I try and sit still and focus on the pain… to really feel the pain… and in doing that I can touch “the moment” when the feeling of pain and pleasure cross lines… like sometimes in an orgasm the threshold of the pleasure can almost feel painful. If there are waves of joy, or waves of suffering, coming towards you there is only one viable option: pick up that board and surf.

    Children take Santa Clause seriously; adults know it is just a joke… yet in the magic encounter with Santa – as a child – the moment is very real and meaningful even after the joke is revealed. I still cherish those memories, because they were full of magic, and this world we all are in is also full of magic. Adults use lies to tell the truth.

    The Cosmic Joke is not a “laughing at”, it is a “laughing with”… because at the end we will all come to the complete understanding that it was – as Bill Hicks famously called it – just a ride.





    * Sometimes the Fool is numbered with the last number i.e. either the Alpha or the Omega.
    Hi, awani
    I had that feeling during a trip with psychedelic substances, long ago. The feeling was that everything was a great joke on a universal scale.
    That the whole universe was mocking us. The whole universe knew it except us. A complete nonsense.
    What I could never decipher, is if the universe itself, inflicted this cruel joke, or simply it's a simple witness.
    I know we are insignificant in a macro scale of the universe, but why waste so much energy for nothing? Perhaps is my perception what is not correct.

    I do not have a good memory of that, anyway.

  2. #12
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    Personally, I can see where the main and seemingly contradictory viewpoints on this thread stem from.

    This dialogue could be more productive if we simply shared our views but refrained from assessing/quantifying/evaluating the personal lives and experiences of others.

    Even if a perspective is presented that is radically different from our own, it is much more productive to first listen without bias or prejudice rather than directly jumping to defending/debating one's main narrative while "attacking" the other.

    "Cosmic Joke" (for example) is a meme, derived from a larger cluster of mutually confirming & reassuring narratives, all of which are subject to the inevitable mutual confirmation bias. Reality is full of such seemingly conflicting narrative-clusters. NONE of them are "true". Narratives are merely geometrical mediums/vehicles/carriers to express variations on an underlying substantial theme. When lost in "The Battle Of Narratives", we are prone to "taking sides" and we lose sight of the substantial. In our reality, narratives can be very useful, IF they are coherent and super-conductive to such a degree where they can literally (as opposed to figuratively) affect manifest change/alterations in the dense realm of matter. This is the "Trial by Earth" of ALL narratives. "Its power is entire when converted to Earth", etc...

  3. #13
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    Awani, great post, and eloquently said.


    Quote Originally Posted by Warmheart View Post
    It is joke, because you use dimethyltryptamine. If you use dipropyltryptamine, you'll have totally different experience.
    Why would we use DPT instead of DMT? DMT is naturally occurring - not just in plants and other animals either, but but in our very own bodies.

    Even then, DPT seems to cause ego death, as does DMT, which can be terrifying for anyone. DMT can and has scared the shit out of people to the point they refuse to go back to it. (For now... they'll run back into it at death, like everyone does. lol)

    Quote Originally Posted by Warmheart View Post
    But both of them (and all the other such substances) are like viagra, which gives you potency while making you impotent and causing numerous other bad side effects.
    Uhhh... viagra is for treating people who already have erectile disfunction, it doesn't give them the problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Warmheart View Post
    In the case with these substances you get a very poor and cheap substitution of actual transcendental experience and pay a huge price for it: your entity becomes gradually more weaker to the point it becomes totally unable to get any real transcendental experience altogether.
    Since you've not dove into a full DMT experience, you are making up things when you state its "a very poor and cheap substitution of actual transcendental experience", and likewise you have no proof of any supposed "price" being paid for using the substance that is naturally occurring in our body and produced in large amounts at death.
    It is literally the catalyst for any spiritual experience you have, naturally, and thus is why its used in a stronger amount from naturally obtained sources, which also have a history of being sacred.

    But feel free to keep ignoring the relevant points, while simultaneously making up lies and scare tactics about a thing you've admitted to having no experience with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Warmheart View Post
    If you realize that something is illusion, it means that you get power over it, in authentic case it means getting great Siddhis. But be honest at least with yourself, you don't have any Siddhis. You get poor experience which is less than 0,00001% of experience you can get during authentic spiritual progress.
    Anyone that reads up on siddhi will see that it depends on the path/culture as to what one believes them to be - and likewise, many of the more outlandish/magickal abilities, can in fact (and are) experienced by the person using the DMT.
    For our own experiences - a friend who utilized it, was directly told by the Spirit, of something I had drawn in private (that I told no one of, and threw away minutes after drawing it, at work), and how to draw it properly. He relayed the information of the geometry, and said It said that I would know, because my friend didn't understand the message. When he relayed it, I then explained it to him and we both had a good laugh. Such things are not simply illusions within the mind. There is continuity, which you also ignore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Warmheart View Post
    One of the reasons why spiritual progress takes long is that practitioner must cleanse himself first from various defects. These defects make any experience highly subverted and dangerous. The substances, which are used by you, are actually multiplying those defects.
    From our experience, this is simply a lie. In the presence of the All/One, there are no defects. When back, we are changed from the experience, and are further instructed and guided to do certain exorcises or practices to further our physical manifestation of our already transmuted selves.

    From the other experiences and literature I've read, the only problem that arises, is a self inflicted one, wherein the one experiencing It doesn't surrender their ego - this sends them to a sort of hell, which is actually for learning, not torturing. Eventually they learn, much like letting a toddler exhaust themselves until they finally get it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Warmheart View Post
    While there is indeed a specific use for some specific "substances" (not derivatives of tryptamine) in spiritual progress, but they are very situational and you need to know a lot of various details for proper use of them.
    Again, this is a flat out lie.
    It is naturally occurring in your body. It is the key ingredient to many sacred herbs and processes, and the entire thing is actually very simple in concept, but is wrestled with in practice; Let go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Warmheart View Post
    The "joke" here is the one played by you on yourself. Your experience is caused by being deluded by intoxicant. It only looks "transcendental" for you, because you never experienced anything like that before, but in fact it is garbage experience which has nothing to do with real thing.
    There is nothing else like DMT - the others only do partially similar effects, and to various degrees - but it alone is the one that is endogenous in our own bodies and is the cause of our spiritual experiences through other means which utilize what it is our bodies, and it has a large range of psychological and physiological effects which when utilized correctly (by those who surrender/serve), enhances their mind/spirits and bodies:

    According to a dose-response study, "dimethyltryptamine does slightly elevate blood pressure, heart rate, pupil diameter, and rectal temperature, in addition to elevating blood concentrations of beta-endorphin, corticotropin, cortisol, and prolactin. Growth hormone blood levels rise equally in response to all doses of DMT, and melatonin levels were unaffected."
    Source.

    See Also:

    In addition to increasing height in children and adolescents, growth hormone has many other effects on the body:
    •Increases calcium retention,[citation needed] and strengthens and increases the mineralization of bone
    •Increases muscle mass through sarcomere hypertrophy
    •Promotes lipolysis
    •Increases protein synthesis
    •Stimulates the growth of all internal organs excluding the brain
    •Plays a role in homeostasis
    •Reduces liver uptake of glucose
    •Promotes gluconeogenesis in the liver[37]
    •Contributes to the maintenance and function of pancreatic islets
    •Stimulates the immune system
    •Increases deiodination of T4 to T3

    There is also this:

    Researchers led by the UCLA psychiatrist Charles Grob have reported that Brazilian UDV members are on average healthier physiologically and psychologically than a control group. UDV members also claimed that ayahuasca had helped them overcome alcoholism, drug addiction and other self-destructive behaviors.
    So yeah. The joke here, is that you have no knowledge or understanding of what you're talking about, and are in fact outright lying and fear mongering, which in the spirit of this thread, I find to be funny, and fun to highlight how and why you're making a joke of yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Warmheart View Post
    I said it not to offense you, but to make you think about it. If you unveiled "illusion" of this world, but you got no power over it (I don't mean some psychological umbo-jumbo, I mean real power), then it means that you simply played a joke on yourself and deluded yourself.
    I can't speak for the others, but I'm not offended. I do find it comical that you think that you're somehow warning people, or even know what "power" is, when even certain texts that detail about siddhi make it clear that the vulgar abilities, even if explicitly literal, are nothing without mastery over the self.
    Let go of your concept of power, and maybe you'll accomplish something.

    Quote Originally Posted by black View Post
    All jokes aside.


    WHAT IF .... Warmheart is correct with what he is suggesting ?
    What if... the moon were made of cheese.



    Science, history, and experience says otherwise.

    When it comes to the cosmic joke, there are those who get it, and those who don't get it yet. But everyone, and everything, is The Joke.




    ~Seth-Ra

    Off-Topic continued here: Is psychedelics a valid path?
    Last edited by Awani; 1 Week Ago at 06:04 PM. Reason: mod note
    One fatal tree there stands of knowledge called, forbidden them to taste. Knowledge forbidden? Suspicious. Reasonless. And why should their Lord envy them that? Can it be sin to know? Can it be death? And do they stand by ignorance, is that their happy state, the proof of their obedience and their faith?

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by pierre View Post
    That the whole universe was mocking us. The whole universe knew it except us. A complete nonsense.I know we are insignificant in a macro scale of the universe, but why waste so much energy for nothing? Perhaps is my perception what is not correct...
    I wouldn't know, all I can share is what I felt in my own thoughts about this topic. I do not see it as "mocking". We don't mock a child when we pretend to be Santa Claus. We play a trick based in love in order to grant a wonderful magical experience. My daughter spoke about Santa Claus coming and eating porridge on the porch months after the event (where I live you put out porridge for Santa). Also I would not say we are insignificant in the strict sense. We are what is. We are everything. And nothing.

    "I laugh when I think how I once sought paradise as a realm outside of the world of birth. It is right in the world of birth and death that the miraculous truth is revealed. But this is not the laughter of someone who suddenly acquires a great fortune; neither is it the laughter of one who has won a victory. It is, rather, the laughter of one who; after having painfully searched for something for a long time, finds it one morning in the pocket of his coat." - Zen master Thich Nhat Hanh
    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.


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    "I laugh when I think how I once sought paradise as a realm outside of the world of birth. It is right in the world of birth and death that the miraculous truth is revealed. But this is not the laughter of someone who suddenly acquires a great fortune; neither is it the laughter of one who has won a victory. It is, rather, the laughter of one who; after having painfully searched for something for a long time, finds it one morning in the pocket of his coat."
    I fought my guru so much, it was so funny. All the drugs and sex and i couldn't escape the truth. This wasn't really me.
    No one wants to dwell on philosophical thoughts at an orgy, but like all true philosophers and artists it's not our choice, no matter how much we fight it.
    To Giacometti he didn't know if a painting was ever finished, he was a slave to his art. He didn't really decide when to paint or when to finish.
    The joke being to him that no art is ever finished.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kibric View Post
    The joke being to him that no art is ever finished.


    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.


  7. #17
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    Nothing is possible.

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Awani View Post
    Nothing is possible.

    Yeah thats what happens when God gets pissed at everyone and just says "FUCK IT, NO ONES GETTING ANYTHING FOR CHRISTMAS!"
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

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    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    Yeah thats what happens when God gets pissed at everyone and just says "FUCK IT, NO ONES GETTING ANYTHING FOR CHRISTMAS!"
    Yes... but it also means that NOTHING is very very possible... meaning that when you are liberated into the All... when you merge with the Divine Mystery and become everything you are also nothing...

    ...nothing is possible.

    Nothing is impossible is actually not possible. Nothing is ALWAYS possible.

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.


  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awani View Post
    Yes... but it also means that NOTHING is very very possible... meaning that when you are liberated into the All... when you merge with the Divine Mystery and become everything you are also nothing...

    ...nothing is possible.

    Nothing is impossible is actually not possible. Nothing is ALWAYS possible.

    But if Everything is ''All'', then that ''No-thing'' you speak of is literally ''Something'' seeing as though this ''One Thing'' can spring an entire Existence of many different things, like the Stone.

    This ''All'' is literally the background, the Soul of the World. Can't a bit be scraped off?

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