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Thread: Calcium

  1. #21
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    Very kind of you to openly share your work. Thank you for taking the time to write it up and explain what you did.

    I find it intriguing that you are sold on this method. I have no doubt you feel you have uncovered something of value.

    Is this the orange oil picture you posted in your introduction thread?

    What does it smell like? What does it taste like?

    While the rejuvenation aspect of your substance is subjective, the dissolving power of it is more quantifiable; approximately how long does it take to dissolve silver?

    I encourage you to use solid gold that you file yourself instead of "gold leaf" or "gold powder" commonly sold online if you decide to test the power of your oil on gold.

    What physical characteristics or feeling in your body do you feel instantly after ingesting this oil? What about 5 minutes, 30 minutes, hours later?

    You mention that this is your life's work. Do you know any one else working on your path? Have they achieved satisfactory results?

    Nearly every Alchemist who has left a written work to posterity claims that their Matter is available to everyone. Cow milk, which I assume is what you are working with, is only available to a very select few amount of people in this world. Only in modern times has it become more easily accessible to the masses. Do you agree with their assessment that what we should be working with is available to everyone?

  2. #22
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    What does it smell like?
    Nothing.

    What does it taste like?
    Oily without flavour. It is half finished as an orange oil and mortifies the blood when ingested.

    how long does it take to dissolve silver?
    About 1 min.

    What physical characteristics or feeling in your body do you feel instantly after ingesting this oil? What about 5 minutes, 30 minutes, hours later?
    The red oil. Finished. Tingling, warmth, sweating toxins.

    Do you know any one else working on your path? Have they achieved satisfactory results?
    Personally i have never met anyone who has done more than a cursory investigation of it.

    Cow milk, which I assume is what you are working with, is only available to a very select few amount of people in this world. Only in modern times has it become more easily accessible to the masses. Do you agree with their assessment that what we should be working with is available to everyone?
    I agree and it was. Just not in the form of milk. Calcite bubbling up through the rocks and forming little balls under soil, trodden underfoot.
    Found on and beneath hillocks. Moonmilk from caves used as medicine for the poor in many cultures. Chalk played with by children.
    The white lead that feeds lead mines. The crystal that travels and clings to the purest gold veins.

  3. #23
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    To be very honest milk has been available to rich and poor alike for thousands of years.
    It was esteemed and sacred but not unobtainable. In agricultural communities it was common.
    It has been restricted under certain figures in history but its not been un-get able for the majority of the population.
    It is common and dairy consumption shaped history.

    Milk is as ancient as mankind itself as it is produced by all species of mammal, from man to whales as the perfect source of nourishment for their young.
    The first reports of human consumption of other mammalian milks date back as early as 6000-8000 BC. At this time ancient man learned to domesticate species of animals initially for the provision of meat, and then later for the provision of milk for general consumption.
    https://dairy.ahdb.org.uk/talking-to.../#.XUj4ZehKjIU

    Milk also eats away at steel.
    The platforms on which milk used to be transported had to be replaced every few years because the spillages of milk ended up eating through the steel.

    Know therefore, Son, that the first Water is that Water Rebar, which God made of Nature, and it is the cause of Generation, as I said before; but when after the conjunction which ariseth from the Marriage, it begets the Water of Life, and the Philosophers Milk, with one of which, or both, you must augment and feed your Stone perpetually.
    The conjunction being the gumm turning to stone from the oyl from milk. A philosophers milk a good name for something that was normal milk, but now in a different form.

    http://www.levity.com/alchemy/ripmerc.html

  4. #24
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    Do you have any literature or sources that you feel resonate with your work, Kibric? Or any treatises that describe anything along the lines of the process you propose?

    I'm curious what led you down this path, and even more curious where it will lead you. I wish you all the best.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmuldvich View Post
    Do you have any literature or sources that you feel resonate with your work, Kibric? Or any treatises that describe anything along the lines of the process you propose?

    I'm curious what led you down this path, and even more curious where it will lead you. I wish you all the best.
    I am also curious about this, when I read the literature citations in the OP I read something different. This is what I love, seeing how others from their own experiences and understandings, see sometimes vastly different things. All these are just my understandings, I would love for someone to correct my misunderstandings. This is in no way saying that what you have found isn't valuable, it may in fact be/be aroad to a particular but I will reserve my judgement on whether this will make the stone (especially since I have not the philosophic stone either!).

    This Matter which comes out of the Center, first of all divides it self into three parts, to procure one corporal or certain form of each Metal.
    These three parts are only fed in the Earth by the Elements, out of their Bodies, and nourish'd till they be per|fect.
    But the Matter which comes out of the Center is ima|gined by the Stars, operated by the Elements, and formed by the Earth:
    It is a Matter to be known, and the true Mother of Metals and Minerals:
    It is such a Matter and Mother, whereof Man himself is conceived, born, nourish'd, and made corporal:
    (Using your bolding)

    The true mother of metals and minerals is the triangular stone of St Didier. The 3 matters referred to here are the Volatile, Acid and Alcali of the later parts of the golden chain of homer. In some sense air, water and earth.

    Now you must first know, that all Metals and Minerals of the Earth have one only Matter and Mother,
    whereby in general they all received Conception, gaining a compleat and corporal Birth.
    I have bolded where my eyes go as to seeing what may be being referred to here. Especially with the ideas of the Golden Chain of Homer in mind.

    Man himself is conceived, born, nourish'd, and made corpora
    To which I say that all things, not just man himself are built from and will be reduced down to nitre and salt.

    in the mines and caverns of the earth, which are viscous water, and subtil spirits running through the pores, veins, and bowels of the mountains.
    Of them is produced a vapour or cloud, which is the substance and body of metals united, ascending, and reverberating upon its own proper earth,
    (as Geber sheweth) even till by a temperate digestion
    through the space of a thousand years, the matter is fixed, and converted into a mineral stone, of which metals are made.
    I have come to see that sometimes when mines or caverns are referred to by adepts, it is talking more about what may be mined from matters and not literal mines. Mine far enough and you will find where all things come and to where all things return. If these reverberate in their own blood then you will find the mineral for which you seek, if you're lucky it may not even take 1000 years!

    With this said, I do believe that it may well be possible to procure our first matter from matters mentioned and I do believe that what you have shared is very interesting.

    I am curious if others are in agreement with what I have said?

  6. #26
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    which I say that all things, not just man himself are built from and will be reduced down to nitre and salt.
    According to the literature you are referring to, everything is built from aeshmajim. And that's where everything eventually will go to. According to that literature. No, actually there is another "thing" behind the aeshmajim..

    However there is something special in mankind. Whereas everything in this world constitutes of fixed aeshmajim, man consists in a certain part of "supernatural" things (see also Basil Valentine), which is highly volatile so to say. This highly volatile part (your soul) will return to its source after you die. At judgement day and after proper putrefaction of your physical appearance in the ground, the latter will eventually join your soul at last.

    That is according to the Golden Chain and the accomodated thinking of the GuR of course...

    Niter and salt are merely substances from somewhere "in between", but playing a certain special role of course.

    At least that's how I understand it these days..

  7. #27
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    Thank you Florius! Indeed, you are correct and I thank you for correcting my error. When I wrongly spoke of all things coming from and returning to I indeed should have spoke of the universal firey waters. Niter and salt are indeed material manifestations on relative opposite sides of the spectrum of the universal tension and it is a mistake to say they are the original manifestations.

    If I were to say that all things are made from niter and salt and can be reduced to such matters, would we be in better agreement with the gist of what I am communicating? With that important correction I feel that expresses that which I was speaking of more clearly!

    On a side note, I would love to understand more of this 'thing' before the aeshmajim (The Wuji before Taiji, beyond good and evil). I believe you alluding to aspects behind the ultimate universal process, beyond matter and onto the membrane where the philosophical principles first start to influence our material space to which I can grasp but not yet actualize. If you would desire to do but wish to without going too far off the topic presented here feel free to PM me.

    I thank you again for clarifying my words, more succinctly and accurately expressing what I was trying to which of course helps to sublime and make more penetrating my own understanding! The alembic of your avatar is working well here.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philosophical View Post
    I indeed should have spoke of the universal firey waters. Niter and salt are indeed material manifestations on relative opposite sides of the spectrum of the universal tension and it is a mistake to say they are the original manifestations.
    Actually the Niter and the Salt are in good neighborhood. In the golden chain both are linked next together (note the symbols for niter and salt):



    If I were to say that all things are made from niter and salt and can be reduced to such matters, would we be in better agreement with the gist of what I am communicating? With that important correction I feel that expresses that which I was speaking of more clearly! On a side note, I would love to understand more of this 'thing' before the aeshmajim (The Wuji before Taiji, beyond good and evil). I believe you alluding to aspects behind the ultimate universal process, beyond matter and onto the membrane where the philosophical principles first start to influence our material space to which I can grasp but not yet actualize. If you would desire to do but wish to without going too far off the topic presented here feel free to PM me.

    I thank you again for clarifying my words, more succinctly and accurately expressing what I was trying to which of course helps to sublime and make more penetrating my own understanding! The alembic of your avatar is working well here.
    I did not intend to teach you. I was just recalling what stuck after I was reading those texts. Salt, according to those 18th century german alchemical texts you are referring to, is the matter that is eventually resting behind after every "things" putrefaction or calcination. I guess it was seen as some kind of core materia of any specific substance or being. Being that it had a certain standing within the christian belive system of that time (see Lucas 14:34 "The salt is good".). However, if you look at the chain above, the salt is on neither end of the chain. To our additional confusion, there is also another kind of salt that the golden chain and other following texts talk about.

    The "two" of the aeshmajim is also expressed in the two columns of "Boaz and Jachin", like how they are shown in this image of the Compass of the Wise:



    This all goes back to native jewish "magical mysticism/cabbala", or the christian interpretation of it.

    There is a common source that was for example expressed in gnosticism. There the "two" consisted of the Demiurg (the lesser creator-god) and the "transcendent, hidden god. Others see those archetypes like "light/dark", "good/evil", or just any archetypical bipoles.

    Alchemists (at least of that time period) and the golden chain especially had a certain affinity to the number two. And to the "one" that was necessarily behind, or above the "two".

    The three are the principles salt, sulfur and mercury.

    The four are the elements fire, air, water and earth.

    The fifth is the quintessence that according to those texts can be found in anything.

    According to the texts we are discussing here, these are not merely thoughts but musings based upon alleged actual observations. Therfore the stone was called the "philosopher's". Its manufacturing explained "everything". The holistic part was actually very important for the whole alchemical practice of the era we are talking about here.

  9. #29
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    I am enjoying this discussion, I love being exposed to different perspectives on these works to my own. I never saw the golden chain picture as a spectrum in the sense I feel you are referring to (though in another sense I can), as much as it is going over the process to which the universal fire is to be fixt. Passing from most volatile/least concentrated at the chaos, to the fixed/concentrated perfection of our stone at the end. Your interpretation is interesting to me though and I will consider it more deeply.

    Quote Originally Posted by Florius Frammel View Post
    Actually the Niter and the Salt are in good neighborhood. In the golden chain both are linked next together (note the symbols for niter and salt):

    When I talk of universal spectrum I am talking of their relative natures to the universal fire and water which would be the original spectrum (to my understanding). The salt is the patient, mother, magnet, water which is in counterbalance to the niter being agent, father, spirit, fire. I quite possibly see these as being on a spectrum because of my understanding of ancient Chinese philosophy where yin and yang are but relative ends on a spectrum (this being just one aspect of their relationship), maybe I err in this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Chain of Homer
    The Heavens and the Air, both animated by the universal �� are the Father, the Male, the Agent or operating principle. �� and �� are the Mother, the Female or passive principle.
    I believe another reason I think about it this way (niter and salt being on a kind of spectrum) is that the agent cannot directly merge with the patient on a certain step of the work as I understand it. The agent and the patient merge when cohobated in their own blood which indicates the Law of Mediums to be applicable. Maybe this is conflating the law of mediums and the agent/patient idea, presently I see them as being aspects of the same thing. I feel that the quote above kind of supports this idea somewhat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Florius Frammel View Post
    To our additional confusion, there is also another kind of salt that the golden chain and other following texts talk about.
    Yes, I believe this salt that is being referred to here is the true first matter. It is to be found everywhere and no where, it may only be made by art to my understanding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Florius Frammel View Post
    According to the texts we are discussing here, these are not merely thoughts but musings based upon alleged actual observations. Therfore the stone was called the "philosopher's". Its manufacturing explained "everything". The holistic part was actually very important for the whole alchemical practice of the era we are talking about here.
    I wish I could comment more on the Jewish/Christian mysticism side of things here, though somewhat to my disadvantage I've not been exposed to either of their teachings except for small amounts, though I do not doubt that in an occult way they are teaching something of great value. I do agree that a holistic perspective is important and I do try to cultivate it as much as I can. I really appreciate what you have written and will consider it some more to be sure!

  10. #30
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    Do you have any literature or sources that you feel resonate with your work, Kibric? Or any treatises that describe anything along the lines of the process you propose?
    Yes. Here are some.

    Take then, in the name of Jesus Christ, our venerable Water of the Philosophers, original Hyle of the Sages;
    it is the stone that one revealed for you in this treatise.
    It is the first matter of the perfect body, as you have determined.
    Put your matter in a furnace, into a clean vessel,
    clear transparent and round, whose opening you will hermetically seal,
    so that nothing can escape. Your matter is to be placed on a level bed or surface, slightly hot.
    You will leave it there for one Philosophical month. Maintain the heat evenly,
    so that the perspiration of the matter will sublime, until it sweats no longer, that nothing rises or descends,
    That it begins to putrefy, to suffocate, to coagulate and to fix by maintaining the constancy of the fire.
    It will not raise more of the exalted, smoky substance, and our Mercury will remain on the bottom,
    dry, robbed of its humidity, putrefied, coagulated, changed to a black earth,
    that one calls Head of the Raven, a dry and earthy element.
    When you have done this, you will have accomplished the genuine sublimation of the Philosophers,
    during this you will have examined all the aforementioned stages, to wit: sublimation of the Mercury,
    distillation, coagulation, fixation, in one only vessel and with one only furnace as was stated.
    Indeed when our stone is in its vessel, and it is increase, one says that there is
    sublimation or ascension. When afterwards it again settles to the bottom,
    one says that there is distillation or precipitation.
    Next, when after the distillation and sublimation, our stone begins to putrefy and to coagulate,
    it is the putrefaction and the coagulation; finally when it calcines and fixes through the loss of
    its radical, aqueous humidity. It is the calcinations and fixation;
    all this is done through the single act of heating, in a single furnace, in a single vessel, as was said.
    ‘transparent and recently smelted lead mineral’ must be used, the one at the Arsenal Library states:
    ‘Take the crystalline stones that surround and feed the lead mines, the most transparent and recently
    taken from the water of mines, whenever possible, provided they had not be exposed to the sun at all’.75
    Another copy provides even more detail on the raw material required to prepare the ‘Philosopher's Stone’: ‘
    The true philosophical matter is a mineral substance properly named Saturn's sperm, since it is mainly
    found at the places in which lead grows.
    In plain terms, it is the middle substance of the wise men's Mercury, a water that is coagulable and which may be hardened by a proper heat into stones and metals. Hence it was that the philosophers called it their Stone, or if it be lawful for me to reveal that which the devil out of envy would not discover to Illardus, I say they called it a Stone, to the end that no man might know what it was they called so. For there is nothing in the world so remote from the complexion of a stone, for it is water and no stone. Now what water it is I have told you already, and for your better instruction I shall tell you more. It is a water made by Nature, not extracted by the hands of man. Nor is it mere water but a spermatic, viscous composition of water, earth, air and fire. All these four natures unite in one crystalline, coagulable mass, in the form or appearance of water; and therefore I told you it was a water made by Nature
    http://www.levity.com/alchemy/aula_lucis.html

    As an Infant in the womb of its Mother, decoction of temperate heat helping it, turneth the Flowers into its Nature and kind, that is, into Flesh, Bloud, Bones, and Life, with the other properties of a living Body, of which 奏is needless to say any more. And hence you may understand, that our water changeth it self into a perfect kind, which things of its own kind: For first it will congeal it self into a substance like Oyl; then it will change that Oyl, by the means of temperate heat, into Gum; and lastly, by the help of the perfect heat of the Sun, into a Stone. Now therefore know, that out of one thing you have three, that is Oyl, Gum, and a Stone. Know also, that when the Water is turned into Oyl, then you have a perfect Spirit; when the Oyl is turned into hard Gum, then you have a perfect Spirit and Soul; and when the Spirit and Soul are turned into a Stone, then you have a perfect Body, Soul and Spirit together: Which as it is called the Philosophers Stone and Elixir, and a perfect Medicine of mans Body; so also that which is leavened with its genus, and the fifth Essence. Know, Son, that fifth Essences are divers, one whereof is to Humane Bodies, another to Elixir, and to the imperfect Bodies of Metals: For you must consider, that the generation and growth of Metals, is not as the growth of mans Body; for a genus agrees with its genus, and a species with its species. Moreover, know that the first Matter of man, which begetteth the Flesh, Bloud, Bones and Life, is a Spermatick Humour, which causeth generation, through a vital Spirit included therein: And when the Matter is generated and congealed into a Body, extract thence the fifth Essence of that Body, wherewith you may nourish the Body.
    http://www.levity.com/alchemy/ripmerc.html

    " Our ore Lucas calls the white ore, and it goes by many other names on account of the many colours which it exhibits in the various stages of the chemical process. But though the jealousy of the Sages has described it under various names, it is, and remains only one substance. Pythagoras says: "Many names are given to it; nevertheless, it is nothing else but the one and true Matter, and this is by reason of the development of its nature. The envious have described it by the names of all bodies, as, for instance, a coin, lead, copper, etc., according to the variety of its colours." So Lucas tells us that we have no need of many things but only of one thing. Diamedes and Basan say: "Do not add to it any foreign substance; for the common substance of metals is one thing, and more excellent than all other things." Hence our whole Art is concerned with water, and a twin substance that ameliorates the water. Synon tells us that sulphur and our ore are derived from one thing, and changed into four. Lucas says: "The white ore is subjected to coction till it generates itself. Thus it becomes united in all its four elements, and receives a living soul. It is never more than one thing, but as a man consists of body, soul, and spirit, and yet is no more than one person, so our substance consists of body, soul, and spirit. The ore receives its strength, spirit, and growth from the water." The Sages say: "If the ore be often deadened in its coction, it becomes all the more excellent, and if the body have a soul after the manner of man.
    . It-is also called a round cloud, death, blackness, darkness, shadow, ashy lead, or a metallic and subtle ore; or it is described, after that which is obtained from it, as gold that was hidden in the body of Magnesia. Hence it is said: "Extract the shadow thereof from the splendour." This also is the substance of which so many have spoken. Three things constitute the true ore, viz., body, soul, and spirit. Hence it is compared to an egg, because in an egg, too, the chicken is developed out of three things. Thus also Alchemy is produced out of the above-mentioned three things, as many philosophers do testify in "The Crowd." The male principle, or the water, is also called the "nature"; for water is a natural agent which dissolves the elements of bodies, and then again unites them. Concerning this water, it is said by Fictes, that its nature has the wonderful power of transmuting the body into spirit. Where it is found alone it overcomes all other things, and is an excellent, harsh, and bitter acid, which transmutes gold into pure spirit. Without this acid we cannot attain either the red, or the black, or the white. When it is combined with bodies, then the body changes into spirit, by a heavenly fire, and immutable, indestructible tincture. Know also that the union must be brought about by a gentle fire, since the elements cannot stand a fierce fire, until the union has taken place. When the gentle heat is applied, the elements devour and consume each other, and yet again, on the other hand, comfort and strengthen each other, and teach each other to stand the test of fire. Hence the Sages say: "Invert the elements, and you will find what you seek." To invert the elements is to make that which is moist, dry, and that which is volatile, fixed. The husband also enforces conjunction that he may reproduce his own likeness. Many strive to accomplish this separation and conjunction; but few succeed in bringing about an union which can stand the test of fire. The composition which is prepared out of our precious substance is not even in the slightest degree diminished in volume by fire. Rather, it is nourished by fire, as a mother nourishes her child. These are the only things that have the power of making red and white, both inwardly and outwardly. Remember that at first they can only bear a gentle fire. When you see that a whiteness begins to appear it must be your next care to extract it from the black substance; then you should develop the redness which is hidden in it. But the latter object you must attain, not by extraction, but by gentle coction. Do not marvel that the Sages describe our ore under many names, and as consisting of body, soul, and spirit. They are also referred to as brothers, or as husband and wife. But Geber says that sometimes the whole substance is only called body, or spirit; and unless there be a dissolution into water, our work cannot be brought to a successful issue. Of course, we do not mean the water of the clouds, as the foolish say, but a permanent water, which, however, cannot be permanent without its body. Thus Hermogenes says that we are to take the hidden spirit, and not to despise it, because it shares its great power with its brother. For only the union of the two can give us the right Tincture. The water is also called a most sharp acid with which the body must be washed; this is what Socrates calls is woman's work, and child's play."The secret of our Art is the union of man and woman: the husband receives the tinging spirit from his wife. The union of husband and wife coagulates the female principle; and if the whole be transmuted into red, we have the treasure of the world, of which Synon says: "If the water be changed into the body, the body is changed, first into earth, then into dust and ashes, and you have what you want."

    Then the work is over, and the Stone contains within itself the Tincture in the body of Magnesia. Therefore, the Sages say, in conclusion: "My son, extract from the splendour its shadow." Accordingly, we need exertion, and exercise is beneficial to us, seeing that milk is for infants, but that strong men require stronger food. So also is it in this operation of the Stone.
    http://www.levity.com/alchemy/alze.html

    I'm curious what led you down this path, and even more curious where it will lead you. I wish you all the best.
    William Buckland and his fossil research. Bernard Palissy and his discovery.
    And the water is still very rich in limestone, so it is used to create strange artworks by placing objects in the water, which are soon encrusted by a white layer of calcite crystals. Typically rubber forms are used and the form iss filled by calcite until finally flat reliefs are removed from the form. Other objects are any kind of pottery, especially pots, vases and sculptured animals. They are covered by white limestone and look much better than their simple ceramic heart. The results of the "petrifying" process are sold at the souvenir shop. This is the reason why this cave is also called Les Grottes Pétrifiantes (The Petrifying Caves).

    The French name is plutal, grottes, and that is true as there are two different caves. One has been known at least since Gallo-Roman times, as it contains two graves from this era, The first "written account" is from 1203, an inscription on the cave wall, a very early graffitti. However, the existance was forgotten, and so the official discovery date is 1547 when a second cave nearby was discovered by Bernard Palissy. The first cave was then re-discovered by the caver M. Gilles in 1947.
    https://www.showcaves.com/english/fr...vonnieres.html

    With this said, I do believe that it may well be possible to procure our first matter from matters mentioned and I do believe that what you have shared is very interesting.
    Thanks for your input Philosophical.
    Last edited by Kibric; 08-15-2019 at 03:40 PM.

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