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Thread: Above & Below WHAT?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awani View Post
    On a "high" level there is no dualism. Everything is nothing (no-thing), (...)
    Two interesting and unrelated things:

    1: We seem to be trapped into a geographical mess (which is maybe the subject of this thread): above and below... and now we have a "high level", but probably our languages relate the holy ideas with things which are above or in high levels or upstairs.

    2: Even the nothingness can be a paradox. I recently saw how even the nothingness can be controversial in at least some Buddhist schools: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rangtong-Shentong (the wiki article explains the basics of two different ways of understanding what you've said).

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awani View Post
    The microscopic world looks like the macrocosmic world. The dream is reality, reality is the dream. Heaven is hell, hell is heaven.

    In other words, for me, there is no such thing as above or below. The phrase implies there is no difference between any dualistic states
    Well there's at least some level differences. One is subtle, one is dense, Subtle and gross, Oneness in proportion.

    In the great divide, 900x UP the octave, there will be a great difference if you were to go many levels down the "bottomless pit". One can also expect the behaviors expressed by the individuals in both places to be completely different than each other in comparison as well and they most certainly look much much different than each other, in my experience.

    I guess as subtelty goes up, Quality as well, and this change is expressed naturally, like how the Red Stone, after The Order of the Stone is raised up a level, to a certain point begins to emit it's own light whereas before it did not... who knows the potential of Above and how different it may become :P

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    Sounds like you're talking about Scale Invariance
    Generally, perhaps I am. I haven’t read much about scale invariance. But at this point in time I think that as things coagulate together and grow larger, their attributes change and/or adapt as they move up the scale. Same with moving down the scale.

    Much like what tAlchemist wrote above.
    Art is Nature in the flask; Nature is a vial thing.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiorionis View Post
    I haven’t read much about scale invariance.
    Scale Invariance can be thought of as 'Self-Similarity'. What this really means is that regardless of how much you zoom into or out of an object (be it a function, or a physical object, or the like) it looks exactly the same. Fractals are good examples of self-similarity. Shown below is an animation of the self-similarity of the Mandelbrot Set:



    Another well known example of scale invariance in physics is the Wiener process, which is a continuous-time stochastic (random) process. It's also often called standard Brownian motion. No matter how much you zoom into a Wiener process you still get quantitatively the same thing:





    SOURCE

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiorionis View Post
    I think that as things coagulate together and grow larger, their attributes change and/or adapt as they move up the scale. Same with moving down the scale.
    That would be Non-Scale-Invariance

  5. #15
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    Haha well then I support both concepts.
    Art is Nature in the flask; Nature is a vial thing.

  6. #16
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    Above the firmament versus Below the firmament. The waters were separated, in the beginning, as in Genesis. By waters below we mean that which proceeds in the little alembic which is our glass, the glass itself being the Firmament, and then the waters (or air) above and outside the glass, where we regulate our outer fire so that the inward fire might burn right. In the glass you will have the fire of the philosophical sulfur, AND the fire of the philosophical mercury. When you have extracted the seed of gold through a continual circulation, regulated by the outer fire, you will finally bring about that fourth fire, which is the fire against nature. This is the beginning of Hermes Tree, which grows from the ashes of the former calcination. All the things you do outside of the glass (ABOVE), which is Hermetically Sealed, will have their corresponding sympathies Within the glass (BELOW).

    In the meaning of planet Earth there is the sublunary (below) and the Astral and Celestial (above). A better wording might be "As Outside, So Within"

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coleridgean View Post
    Above the firmament versus Below the firmament.
    Awesome! Now WHAT is this "firmament"?

  8. #18
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    The solid dome (back when the Earth was considered flat, the notion was a dome rather than a sphere around Earth) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firmament

    There are four sublunary elements in ascending order Earth, water, air, and fire, which comprise the sublunary world. Then the firmament, which is the boundary, then luna and the other planets (astral), then the celestial.

    For an alchemist, the hermetically sealed GLASS alembic is the firmament, literally. Once all the stuff goes in at the beginning (mercury and sulfur), then the work is kind of on its own, except for the regulation of the outer fire (athanor) and light and darkness. George Starkey explains it quite well in Ripley Revivd.

    See Nordenskjold 1789 -- An ADDRESS to the True Members of the New Jerusalem Church, revealed by
    the Lord in the Writings of Emanuel Swedenborg, who sincerely wish to separate
    themselves both internally and externally from the Old Church. :

    XXIV. That the only genuine Science of Alchemy consists in the three following Branches ; namely, 1st, the
    Theory concerning the Matter ; 2d, the Theory of the Furnace ; and, 3d, that of the Regulation of the Fire. The
    first Theory shews that Gold is the only Subject Matter of the Work ; the second shews that this Work requires a
    Furnace that can stand the Fire for the Space of a Year at least, and admits of being regulated with Ease and Facility ;
    and the third Theory shews by what a Regulation of Fire Gold may be so opened in the Furnace, as to discover it’s
    two-fold and it’s three-fold Principles, and how to put them into Action, in Order to accomplish it’s Perfection.

    XXV. That the characteristic Difference between the true and the false Alchymist may be seen at once from
    the Theory of Matter, for, as the first works on no other Subject except Gold per se, so the other, works on all
    Sorts of Materials, and is always employed with Compositions and Mixtures ; as is the Case with Theology, for
    true Divinity admits of no other God save Jesus Christ alone, whereas the false, on the other Hand, does not accept
    of the Lord, or when it does, it takes him always in Conjunction with other Powers.

    XXVI. The Alchymist who will not see, when it is laid open for him, that Gold only is the Subject Matter of
    the Philosopher’s Stone, shews thereby he has little Knowledge in natural History, little in natural Philosophy, little in
    Chemistry, and none at all in the Science of Correspondences ; for from these four Sciences it may be confirmed
    that Gold per se is really the only Subject Matter of the Philosopher’s Stone.

    XXVII. That true Alchymy to this Day has been an entirely sealed Science, and an absolutely impenetrable Mystery,
    is from no other Reason but because they have not been able to see and perceive that Gold per se is the only
    Subject for the Philosopher’s Stone, and that by Means of this only can Gold be made, or Transmutation rendered
    possible.

  9. #19
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    I'm suggesting there may be a deeper meaning to this "firmament" archetype.

  10. #20
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    Well, electrons do 'orbit' the nucleus of an atom, and planets do orbit the sun, and the sun does orbit the center of the galaxy. Point and circumference, weaving the circle of Trismegistus.

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