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Thread: Above & Below WHAT?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    You (probably) can't even begin to fathom the "damage" all this toxic "parenting" by the gods has caused.
    I think I can. A dog probably couldn't. Thought experiments however can lead to many different directions.


    Humankind doesn't need to be saved by the gods, but from them.

    Life is not fair, gods or not. And we likely wouldn't even be in this state if it weren't for this long overdue toxic parenting in the first place.

    Atheists and religious people alike are generally clueless about the shady businesses & wars those god-species have been running here
    .


    I really like you Andro, but this sounds a bit like you would think you are some kind of new Messiah. Unless there are people I don't know that you are following and built up that believe system. All the alchemists I read definately are not thinking this way.



    Even atheism is also a religion/belief system.
    I agree. As is (misunderstood) science.


    But perhaps you're missing the main point. "Above" and "Below" are Fields/Emanations. It's the Ground Zero/Source we should ultimately focus on. But to do that, we have to unite those seeming "opposites", whether it is in our flasks or within ourselves, ideally both. It paves the Path of Return to Non-Duality and ultimately to the immeasurable/incommensurate Source.
    Why? To become nothing? Or everything? Or both?

    The actual answer - I cannot give it here. But maybe it's because I don't fuck my sisters (or women in general) LOL
    That doesn't make you special. In the last centuries most of the times and places that wasn't even an advantage.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florius Frammel View Post
    this sounds a bit like you would think you are some kind of new Messiah.
    Far from it. If it mistakenly comes across this way, it's most definitely not my intention. This is a forum and I am expressing my views. But there are other "messiahs" popping out here and there... mostly of the "religiously convenient" sort ... In short, I may be many things, but "messiah" is not one of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Florius Frammel View Post
    All the alchemists I read definitely are not thinking this way.
    While I DO still read (for now), I will also do my own thinking, thank you very much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Florius Frammel View Post
    That doesn't make you special. In the last centuries most of the times and places that wasn't even an advantage.
    I already wrote above that I cannot give my actual answer here. But even my "joke" reply above could be taken to hold some particular value in the proper context. But it's not about "advantages" as most socially engineered & culturally indoctrinated people would (probably?) perceive them.

  3. #63
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    Your mind is my only envy Andro.

    In fact, more your experiences.

    Do you offer shamanic training programs?
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    Your mind is my only envy Andro.
    In fact, more your experiences.
    Thanks, that's kind of you to say... I guess... But there's no reason whatsoever for envy. You have your own gifts, as I have mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by elixirmixer View Post
    Do you offer shamanic training programs?
    Not really...

    Sometimes I teach short workshops (most of them are private events and are not advertised), but those are hardly "shamanic training programs"...

    They can, at best, offer only a small taste of what is possible.

    But to the topic:

    "Above" & "Below" are fundamental basics, "hardwired" into the mechanics of how things work, dualisticallly emanating from the "Center".

    Heaven/hell & gods/demons, etc. on the other hand, are transient phenomena.

  5. #65
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    Andro, you are all wrathful, peaceful, knowledge holding deities. They are you and you them.
    Non physical gods are you. Your consciousness is not local anywhere at all, and is many things other than your personal slice of it.
    I cannot truly prove my consciousness is separate from yours or anyone else because neither is local anywhere.
    Man kneeling and asking his gods, is praying to himself. That other massive slice that he's asleep to.

    I proclaimed with deep loving conviction in a dream " Immortality for all " and so unknowingly propelled my illusionary self towards it.
    Terrified bugs were in a freshly made bed, falling asleep in fear found a single ant crawling on my belly.
    Obsessed about death alot and someone i knew died.

    To see all the faces that are you, gently stare at your own reflection.
    As one face passes to another, the different sides of you reveal themselves.
    Try it and you'll see.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    While I DO still read (for now), I will also do my own thinking, thank you very much.
    I was just wondering what your sources are. The alchemists obviously weren't. Your view as far as I can see it resembles that by Crowley and Tolle a bit though. And how can you be sure your thinking is genuinely your own?


    But it's not about "advantages" as most socially engineered & culturally indoctrinated people would (probably?) perceive them.
    How can you be sure? Even you must acknowledge that the current culture and environment are influencing your thinking. The load on books and TV shows and movies you and I consume were not available in former times. How can you be sure that your view doesn't stem from a very smart entity in disguise with it's own agenda?

    The possibility to provide this kind of out of the box thinking wasn't even given most of the times. Not to mention the possibility to tell others these kinds of views publicly and online. In this regard you are lucky to live here and now in this culture and environment for it would probably not be possible in the past. At least not that easy and convenient.

    And this side of the curtain seems to actually be important according to your own words. You said it's needed to learn how to die properly. I ask you again. What about all the people who don't know and even today are not able to learn for a lot of reasons (the poor, the sick, the young)? Do you think you are the only one who can tell them/us, or is this valuable information also accessable from somewhere/someone else. If I had to look for it inside myself you now have already planted that seed in my subconcious and I can not be sure if it's really from the inside of me, or from you.

  7. #67
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    Kibric:

    In the one, it is one. In the many, it is many.

    In the absolute, you are absolutely right.

    In the relative, we cannot disregard the need for context. To para-quote the Kybalion, Shakespeare is in Hamlet and Hamlet is in Shakespeare, but Hamlet is NOT Shakespeare...

    Again, to para-quote the Kybalion, no "side" or "pole" of "truth" should be disregarded, neither the Absolute nor the Relative.

    In the realm of transitory things, yes, humans are gods, but eons "from now". Just as the gods are humans (of sorts), but eons "ago".

    To quote Awani: "Don't let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion."
    ________

    Florius:

    Quote Originally Posted by Florius Frammel View Post
    Do you think you are the only one who can tell them/us?
    Most certainly not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Florius Frammel View Post
    or is this valuable information also accessible from somewhere/someone else?
    It is accessible to those to whom it is accessible, from wherever it is accessible.

    No "man" is an island. My (unsolicited) suggestion to you is to focus more on understanding the fundamental mechanics and less on the various narratives. For now, I will not address any further inquiries from you, since it always leads to a new game of 20 questions ...

    Finally, if anything I said or wrote resonates with you, you're welcome to test it, use it and make it your own. If not, cast it aside

    Also, I do not ever claim to "speak the truth". Even from a strictly technical perspective, it would be impossible. "Truth" cannot be "spoken". I've discussed this on one of the NBA podcasts.


    ---------------------------------------------------
    Last edited by Andro; 8 Hours Ago at 08:14 AM.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    Florius:

    Most certainly not.

    It is accessible to those to whom it is accessible, from wherever it is accessible.
    Sounds like something god-given

    No "man" is an island. My (unsolicited) suggestion to you is to focus more on understanding the fundamental mechanics and less on the various narratives. For now, I will not address any further inquiries from you, since it always leads to a new game of 20 questions ...
    Fair enough! I actually didn't expect any answers really. And I generally agree with you that answers to those kinds of questions given by others won't lead very far. But they might be inspiring at least. But the way you seem(?) to ship around certain questions seems to show several inconsistencies in your view. You seem to take out from the whole the parts which seem to fit and reject/ignore those who don't. But I guess most are doing it that way. It just doesn't sound very universal and that it may still need some adjustment.


    And sorry when my questions seem to be uncomfortable to you. I'm just not like some others here who cheer about anything you say without questioning it at least a tiny bit.

    Please understand that I'm not attacking you personally in questioning though!

    Also, I do not ever claim to "speak the truth". Even from a strictly technical perspective, it would be impossible. "Truth" cannot be "spoken". I've discussed this on one of the NBA podcasts.
    Also fair enough! You sometimes seem to be pretty convinced of the accuracy of your view though. Eventually you even teach some of it to others.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florius Frammel View Post
    the way you seem(?) to ship around certain questions seems to show several inconsistencies in your view.
    There are no inconsistencies. I DO however ignore certain types of questions, but for a different reason. If you look closely, you'll even find consistency in the type of questions I ignore

    Quote Originally Posted by Florius Frammel View Post
    it may still need some adjustment.
    Always.

    Quote Originally Posted by Florius Frammel View Post
    you even teach some of it to others.
    Even when I "teach", I always encourage independent validation. You should know this by now.

    Anyway, I will make some "closing statements" from my perspective about the topic of this thread, but not right now.

  10. #70
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    I think it's also a question of definition. Some of us may think about the same but have different terms for that. Or we use the same term but have different things in mind.

    Defining terms can be boring but lead to a better understanding of each other.

    For example some when they hear, or read the word "god" think about a bearded man in the sky to whom he thinks to have to obey in order to please the wrathful father figure of his image.

    Others, and there are many examples throughout history, tend to imagine god like something incomprehensible and unfathomable. The source of everything, creator of the above and the below and in whose bossom one will return after death to unite and eternally live in peace with.

    The second view can be pretty close to your definition of the X and again is shared by many (even medieval) christians, jews, moslem, hindi, buddhists and what not.

    The first one is a very childish image of god I agree.

    The undetermined use of the word "god" therefore will unevitably lead to misunderstanding and confusion.

    BTW, even the concept of the Spiritus Mundi was carried into modern times under the name "Weltgeist" by the philosopher Hegel (and even his successors Feuerbach, Marx, Engels and Sartre).

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