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Thread: The Phonetic Cabala

  1. #41
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    Actually I lied, I employ the Fulcanelli....flick of the wrist method....
    Peace and LVX

    Frater L.R.


  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warmheart View Post
    Problem with phonetic cabala is that it can be exploited in order to make extremely sophisticated equations, which would prove that mouse is in fact elephant.

    Many old European alchemists knew only their homeland language and sometimes Latin. As someone, who come from totally different language branch, I can say that those few European languages are in vast minority of languages used by alchemists all over the Earth. Where goes the margin on how far phonetic cabala should stretch? Does it include Russian, Polish, Hungarian and other languages? Definitely each word means everything possible if you translate ito to some random language.

    I think it is very easy to delude oneself into false path by making wrong conclusions because of the phonetic cabala, even worse - one could actually start believing that whatever he found through verbal manipulations is actually THE real substance(-s)... until he spends his time and money in vain.

    I think that one shouldn't make hasty conclusions about that, one shouldn't forget that phonetic cabala as well as various riddles, charades and multilingual allusions were usually the hobby of bored aristocracy, who knew nothing better to do with their time, so they were entertaining themselves. So, every assumption based on phonetic cabala must be taken with grain of salt unless there is some real result.

    What concerns "post mortem" subject - is is also extremely convoluted. Average person has extremely weak spirit, so when he dies he is being welcomed by his own illusions. He expects to be greeted by his deceased relatives or by some kind of god, angels or demons. So he succumbs to deathly dream and sees all that kind of stuff and loses on last chances to survive. And while there are indeed denizens of Lower Worlds, who are sometimes called as Demons by world religions, they have no interest and link for the average man, unless there was some kind of Agreement or unless man has totally fallen off from grace. In last case, I doubt that God (assuming there is a God in Abrahamic point of world-view), would entrust something so important to the one with deep Demonic affiliation.

    So we come to paradox: either Leo Retilus fell from grace and got involved with Demons, but then God wouldn't entrust him with such big Secret. Or God entrusted him with such Secret, because Leo Retilus isn't some fallen creature, but then there would be no Demons around him.

    With no disrespect to anyone. I merely think that there might be some hasty conclusions by people who are involved in this discussion.

    And it is also very clear for persistent seeker what kind of substances were meant by Fulcanelli as real substances for Alchemical Operations. I won't name them here for various reasons, but those substances are of no use anyway, which was proven by terrible death of Champagne/Fulcanelli, who ingested whatever he thought was going to grant him long life. Works of Fulcanelli are highly misleading and will only lead to seeker's ruin.
    This was hilarious, Thanks for the laugh...the are several documents inclyding actual Rosicrucian tradition, are you in fact an initiated? These documents as i described above deal with an alchemical phase...called Dark Night of The Soul..its has its congruency in Chrisitianity with 40 days Christ spent in the desert..where he was....da,da,dum da....tempted by The Devil himself!!!
    Peace and LVX

    Frater L.R.


  3. #43
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    @Warmheart:

    Hi! Long time we read from you. Nice to see you are still around!

    French was the language of european ambassadors since the early 18th century. It was in the past for europe what english is nowadays. The aristocracy from Spain to Russia could speak it. The original british tales of king arthur where made popular like we know them by french authors. German noble men since the reign of family Hohenstaufen

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hohenstaufen

    copied the behaviour of french aristocracy (clothes, knight tournaments, language). This is at least what history books say.

    Etymology alone could lead to something like the phonetic cabala. As for example for the Staufer there were several possible spellings in latin:

    Sthouf, Stophe, Stophen, Stoyphe, Estufin, domus Stoffensis, etc.

    Besides others it resembles the english word stoup and could have meant "chalice" according to historians.

    @Leo

    Can you tell me which texts of the R+C deal with that tradition, or do you happen to mean the GuR?

    @Salazius:

    Thanks for your very interesting post!

    @Andro:

    Imagining doing that practice while bending only one knee is funny!
    Last edited by Florius Frammel; 05-28-2019 at 04:37 AM.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florius Frammel View Post
    Imagining doing that practice while bending only one knee is funny!
    He admitted to lying about that...

    Quote Originally Posted by LeoRetilus View Post
    Actually I lied, I employ the Fulcanelli....flick of the wrist method....
    So he actually "employs the Fulcanelli" instead, so it's the "flicking of the wrist" rather than the "bending of the knee"...

    Although I imagine that both can be (almost) equally pleasurable...

    So I can only speculate that the "flicking of the wrist" is for the feet of the statue/colossus in Hermetic Recreations...

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeoRetilus View Post
    This was hilarious, Thanks for the laugh...the are several documents inclyding actual Rosicrucian tradition, are you in fact an initiated? These documents as i described above deal with an alchemical phase...called Dark Night of The Soul..its has its congruency in Chrisitianity with 40 days Christ spent in the desert..where he was....da,da,dum da....tempted by The Devil himself!!!
    Dark Night of the Soul looks like modern (l.e. implemented a couple centuries ago) semi-psychological interpretation of some processes. Nox Atra Animae, Nox Nigra Spiriti - there aren't even any of such or similar terms in "classic" European texts.

    I also think that Christ and Devil are mostly misunderstood tales. Most of those tales were made up based on rumors and fantasies of religious people who wanted to manipulate the world. Original sense is lost for outsiders. If you will do deep research, you will see that that tale meant something else.
    Quote Originally Posted by Florius Frammel

    @Warmheart:

    Hi! Long time we read from you. Nice to see you are still around!
    Thanks Lately I prefer reading to talking
    French was the language of european ambassadors since the early 18th century. It was in the past for europe what english is nowadays. The aristocracy from Spain to Russia could speak it. The original british tales of king arthur where made popular like we know them by french authors. German noble men since the reign of family Hohenstaufen
    Indeed that is true. However, Paracelsus used to write in German, Villa Nova preferred to write in Latin, and those people were too busy healing the sick and learning ways of Nature, they had no time to learn all European languages and invent multi-lingual charades (like some writers actually did, like author of "Book of Lambspring") and that's if we talk about European alchemists only. If we look at various tales from "mythology" of various non-European nations, many of them look like Alchemical tracts - and those texts weren't originally written on any of European languages. Which shakes that phonetic cabala theory even more.

    In fact, I think one could learn much more about Alchemy from "myths" of other nations than from sophisticated tracts of European alchemists, most of whom only pretended to have the Stone.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    He admitted to lying about that...



    So he actually "employs the Fulcanelli" instead, so it's the "flicking of the wrist" rather than the "bending of the knee"...

    Although I imagine that both can be (almost) equally pleasurable...
    The Goldesel has a very long tradition in popular culture. He succeeds in not even bending one of his four knees.



    So I can only speculate that the "flicking of the wrist" is for the feet of the statue/colossus in Hermetic Recreations...
    Yes, it would be interesting to know which is which, though I assume that there are different flicks of wrists (Basil Valentine for example uses a "geheimer Handgriff" with his Sulfur of Antimony) and different ways how to bend the knee (e.g. with one or two, or four, or even three - the famous crutch- legs).

    @Warmheart: I agree. The phonetic cabala wasn't as popular in german texts. There are more allegories, symbols and actual recipies.

    And even if the phonetic cabala is "merly" just a method for interpretation, like methods used to interpret the Tarot, or the I Ging/Ching it's entertaining the least.

  7. #47
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    I love the fact that im one of the few that understands the jokes being made.
    Join me; on a voyage of stupidity, and self discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=vccZSHroTG4

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    He admitted to lying about that...



    So he actually "employs the Fulcanelli" instead, so it's the "flicking of the wrist" rather than the "bending of the knee"...

    Although I imagine that both can be (almost) equally pleasurable...

    So I can only speculate that the "flicking of the wrist" is for the feet of the statue/colossus in Hermetic Recreations...
    No you are mistaken my friend, I was refering to Salazius mention of the small piles....which is representative of the baetylus/astro/heliogalabus....I said I collected my matter from such piles, but it is more of an approximation, I dont get my matter from those piles..I use the flick of the wrist....
    Peace and LVX

    Frater L.R.


  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeoRetilus View Post
    ..I use the flick of the wrist....
    What do you mean by this?

  10. #50
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    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmuldvich View Post
    What do you mean by this?
    What do the alchemists/philosophers mean by anything they say? They are all sayings/riddles/approximations/allegories/anagrams/cyphers...all designed to point you in the roght direction, but the realization is yours to make alone. I could tell you tje matter but you will not accept it, until you accept it.

    What i tried to get people to realize, is that in nature there is a cycle of birth,life,death, regeneration, and spiritus mundi is what turns this wheel. It is agent and must have a patient, that is something to act on. Something that needs to be driven, because it is the prime mover..The Cause of Causes.

    The most difficult thing in alchemy is finding a matter, tjat conforms to all of nature in this respect and as well all the riddles,sayings ,allegories...and there is but one!!

    This is the most important question you should ever ask yourself regarding alchemy...With my matter...will I ever see the black? Because if you dont see the black ,you wont see the white or the red, what then is required of my matter to turn black? Can it be a mineral, metalloid? Absoluletely not!! Will they ever rot and stink like a corpse, absolultely not, what we are looking for is the complete and absolute putrefaction and digestion of nature, and it is found in only one place. Knowing that is in man that God poured all of the processes of the Greater World into him, the smaller world...we have but to look in this place and find a mirror for how nature digests and putrefies, because it is there that it is opened....

    Farewell all...
    Peace and LVX

    Frater L.R.


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