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Thread: Golden Dawn Order Oath Implications

  1. #21
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    Like I said the only reason as to why is because I feel that there's knowledge lacking. If they can't offer alchemical knowledge then so be it. But I feel that there's something of great value to be gained from it. Especially if conversing with our holy guardian angel can lead to greater things here on Earth as well as the spirit world.

  2. #22
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    Zoas you've been in the golden dawn and went quite far. If I may ask how hard was it to study those lectures? Do you really have to know every detail in the lecture lessons before making it to the next grade? It seems that there are a lot of details to know and these apparently hampers our progress more than anything. Ex I memorized all the Hebrew letters but besides that they want to know its values, sounds, what they mean, etc.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildfire View Post
    Zoas you've been in the golden dawn and went quite far. If I may ask how hard was it to study those lectures? Do you really have to know every detail in the lecture lessons before making it to the next grade? It seems that there are a lot of details to know and these apparently hampers our progress more than anything. Ex I memorized all the Hebrew letters but besides that they want to know its values, sounds, what they mean, etc.
    The first steps can be incredibly boring, but they are necessary.
    The Hebrew letters and their values is not even a 0.001% of what you'll end up memorizing (in the long term).
    The difference is that these first things are essentially nonsensical by the time you study them (i.e, you end up memorizing the Hebrew letters and some values they have, but you don't know what to do with them, so it seems pointless and it is indeed boring -or not specially more interesting than having to memorize the phone number of 20 friends).

    It's not there to hamper anyone's progress. It's actually a necessary condition for a subsequent progress. Anyway, I know it's boring.
    It is similar to trying to learn how to write poetry. You have to know the letters, but then you have to know the words... and then the grammar rules... and, finally, you end up writing poetry and you are not truly forcing your mind as to remember which one is each letter, you have certainly memorized, but it becomes an automatic memory that doesn't need an effort.

    We all tend to think that it would be easier to have a book or a notebook that takes the place of our memory and we can simply write the letters there... but it's not possible.
    It is similar to the idea of writing a poem with some notebooks besides us: one of them explains which ones are the letters, another is a dictionary in which we have to check the words we can use, and finally a book that explains the grammar as to organize them in sentences: of course, you can't write a poem if you need all those notebooks as to write it.

    Anyway, yes, it's very demanding. Probably similar to being studying Medicine at the University (though during by far more years). It does take time until it becomes interesting, but because we all like to think (or at least understand).

    In short: yes, you have to memorize it... though it ends up becoming an automatic memory that doesn't need any kind of effort (in the same way that your memory hosts a lot of English words, but it's not that you are making some sort of effort when you talk or write as to find those words that you have memorized).

    The point is not to torture people by making them memorize random things. They are important in that context (similar to a doctor who knows which ones are the organs of a body... and it would be obvious for him that a student of medicine has to memorize them and it's not a torture that a weird sadist invented as to hamper the progress of the aspiring doctors)

  4. #24
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    Though I am not a big fan of the changes the GD did to the Tarot, it could be a big help to memorize the hebrew letters. It is faster and more convenient for the mind to save data together with images and feelings and it isn't as boring this way too.

    You'll have to learn the (GD way of the)Tarot anyway, so I would suggest you use it as a tool to learn your letters.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florius Frammel View Post
    Though I am not a big fan of the changes the GD did to the Tarot, it could be a big help to memorize the hebrew letters. It is faster and more convenient for the mind to save data together with images and feelings and it isn't as boring this way too.

    You'll have to learn the (GD way of the)Tarot anyway, so I would suggest you use it as a tool to learn your letters.
    Whatever works is OK.
    The real trick is that our memory can be trained, but the only way to train it is by using it.
    So learning 22 symbols, their names, their values, etc. seems challenging... but after some time of memorizing similar things, it becomes an issue of 5 or 10 minutes.
    Probably similar to the case of any waiter who works at a big restaurant: memorizing what 10 persons are going to eat and drink is not really a challenge for such person, though another person who has not been doing it would probably get confused.

  6. #26
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    Thank you. When I said hamper I meant being an obstacle to ritual work. I mean where do you actually use Hebrew letter values and their meanings in a ritual?

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildfire View Post
    Thank you. When I said hamper I meant being an obstacle to ritual work. I mean where do you actually use Hebrew letter values and their meanings in a ritual?
    All of the ceremonies use them actually.
    And all of them need a lot of study.
    Otherwise it is simply random names mixed with nonsensical actions.
    Though any mystical practice has a theory behind it (this is also true for the practices of a Roman Catholic, a Buddhist, a Muslim, etc).
    And Qabalah is for sure the main theory behind any of the GD practices.

  8. #28
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    Alright I'll learn everything. I guess time is not an obstacle. Thank you

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildfire View Post
    Alright I'll learn everything. I guess time is not an obstacle. Thank you
    Maybe the problem is perceiving that Qabalah is an obstacle that you have to study as to learn something unrelated to Qabalah...
    It's not going to happen at a GD... Qabalah is the main thing you'll be studying there, so you are truly studying Qabalah as to be able to study even more Qabalah.
    Maybe it is important to say it... Otherwise you'll be like a Medicine student trying to figure out when all these boring classes about the body will finish and they will talk about something else at the University (never... the whole of Medicine is about the body).

  10. #30
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    Well... there are other disciplines too and although they are related the bonds are different such as enochian at least it is the only one I can think of that doesn't involve hebrew letters. Can you think of anything else that doesn't involve hebrew letters? But maybe I'm just getting way ahead of myself as enochian doesn't get taught until after the portal grade at least so I heard.

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