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Thread: A.I. Government

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    ...one needs to have strong financial and political backup/leverage to implement this. And the aforementioned "greedy pigs" are the ones who have it. So I doubt that giant international corporations would have the "good of the people" (whatever that means) at the top of their priorities.
    This is my main problem with an A.I based technocracy. It's going to be implemented by the ruling class, not the working class people. Like democracy, they will design the system to appear 'fair' on the surface...but in reality it will benefit themselves at the expense of the plebeians.

    All forms of gov't are fucked as long as humans are involved. Because selfishness and greed are an integral part of human nature. This is why a robot gov't can seem very attractive, until you realize that it's going to be created/controlled by some of the world's greatest megalomaniacs.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florius Frammel View Post
    There are more than enough examples of people with a humble background who fought against those "up there" (the establishment), yelling they should hang and be killed and all that, who themselves, once they managed to be "up there" and in charge themselves, reveal themselves to be an even worse nightmare than their predecessors.
    That may be true, and I stand by what I said. However I am not going to be in charge of everyday policies of society in this model; the A.I. will.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    Indeed. The French Revolution comes to mind. "Fat Cat" Louis XVI getting "dragged out" to the guillotine and decapitated... But in the end, Robespierre himself ended up at the Guillotine... unknowingly paving the way for Napoleon...
    You cannot compare monkeys in wigs with an A.I.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kibric View Post
    A.I. couldn't comprehend character beyond a set of rules.
    Can humans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kibric View Post
    This experience that involves morality can't be taught, can't be given to machines.
    That's what people used to say about Africans, or indigenous people (some still say that). I don't buy it.

    Important: I am talking about Machine Learning and Artificial Intelligence. It will only be controlled as far as "don't kill people, or start wars, or make one class suffer because of another class etc"... beyond that kind of "golden rule" the A.I. is in free flow. The only reason, the ONLY reason, to object to such an idea is not X or Y, but fear. Only fear. If you do not have fear why would you resist the concept? Fear of what? Fear that the A.I. will make worse decisions than the horrible and pathetic policies created today by our so-called leaders. Get the fuck out of here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    It's different in insect species, such as ants and bees. They're much closer in application to how I would personally envision AI.
    Yes, could be. Or a whale. Whales are totally underrated creatures.

    I actually think a powerful enough A.I. will be able to achieve a higher degree of passion, creativity and empathy than any human ever could.

    Quote Originally Posted by zoas23 View Post
    Maybe the question should be if it's possible to imagine a government that does not have an ideology... I don't think it's possible.
    I feel - in this thread - everyone has snowed in on "religious texts". I was just stating that the only rules the A.I. have are those that all humans fundamentally agrees upon (and if they don't agree they are probably a sociopath), like don't murder, rape or abuse others. There is nothing wrong with ideologies per se... an A.I. would have studied all ideologies that ever existed and formed a few new ones along the way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Sternbach View Post
    The only way out of this dilemma is a healthy dose of personal Anarchism, in my view.
    Yes, I agree. However I am trying to think of a realistic system of government. Anarchy is unrealistic as it requires humans to "take responsibility over their own lives", and I think an A.I. government will be a reality much quicker than "a world of humans that do not need parents" will ever be. But in an A.I. run society the anarchist will flourish because the A.I. would make sure each individual has free reign to a greater degree than now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dendritic Xylem View Post
    This is my main problem with an A.I. based technocracy. It's going to be implemented by the ruling class, not the working class people.
    Don't be so sure about that. There are a lot of good people out there... and the knowledge to code an A.I. is not in the hands of the rich, anyone can do that if they have the skills. Everyone in the West can be a film director, because everyone can afford a camera... everyone can have their own TV channel (YouTube). Same with coding. I know a few people that are poor, but they code A.I. using cloud resources.

    In the end, however, it has to be the government that makes the choice (unless the people make the choice for them). The way to go about this is to first implement the A.I. to more efficiently run the bureaucracy, after which additional responsibilities are added etc.

    Watch this short scene:



    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.


  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awani View Post
    I feel - in this thread - everyone has snowed in on "religious texts". I was just stating that the only rules the A.I. have are those that all humans fundamentally agrees upon (and if they don't agree they are probably a sociopath), like don't murder, rape or abuse others. There is nothing wrong with ideologies per se... an A.I. would have studied all ideologies that ever existed and formed a few new ones along the way.
    I got it. I still see an attempt to create some sort of objectivism.
    I.e, the A.I. seems more objective than a human, probably less biased.
    The "fundamental laws" that everyone agrees with seem to be an objective code of law.

    ... But the whole fantasy collapses as soon as there's only one sandwich and one chocolate.... and Peter and John really want the sandwich and they don't want the chocolate. I get that the point of the idea is to keep both of them happy, but they have a conflict of interests and the solution will always be ideological... Who gets the sandwich and who will end up eating the chocolate (assuming that both of them are hungry)?
    -There can be a Loto and and the winner gets it... but that's already an ideology.
    -The one who is willing to pay the most gets it... but that's an ideology too.
    -The one who buys it first gets it... but that's also an ideology.
    -Some A.I. robots with a knowledge of medicine can define which one of them has a higher physical need of the nutrients of the sandwich... but that's an ideology too.

    ... I have nothing against ideologies either, I actually don't think that a human society can exist with at least one ideology (though I don't know if that's possible, there's always by far more). Or we can forget the word "ideology" and simply admit that our social decisions are always subjective, even if it's the subjectivism of a machine.

  4. #64
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    I don't pretend anyting will be a Utopia. I am sure some people will get a better deal than others, but I expect that ALL people will have the right to their own lives and a decent place to live and work at. Basic standard rights. And the freedom to live their lives as they see fit.

    We could even see if the A.I. can genereate the "golden rules" on its own and then implement them into its protocol (if it looks good).

    Any argument against the notion of an A.I. government will by default defend the current systems we have, and I would love to hear why our current system is a better option. If an argument against the notion of an A.I. government does not defend the current system we have, then I ask: so what do you suggest

    Some people code. Some people generate. Some people download. Some people seed. And some people are bugs.

    I personally aim to belong to the former categories.

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.


  5. #65

    We don't need AI

    We don't need AI, we have had OI (Organic Intelligence) since the beginning of Creation. OI is the fairest system, it has it's own Executive and Judicial Branch. It is all seeing and all knowing, you can't hide. It can handle the greatest complexities.

    If you kill someone, it kills you. If you steal, it is stolen from you. If you transgress, it transgresses against you in the fairest and most equal way.

    AI is a farce and a charlatan, it can never be equal to OI, it is an attempt to immitate OI, but it can never do it completely.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Scrooge View Post
    We don't need AI, we have had OI (Organic Intelligence) since the beginning of Creation. OI is the fairest system, it has it's own Executive and Judicial Branch. It is all seeing and all knowing, you can't hide. It can handle the greatest complexities.

    If you kill someone, it kills you. If you steal, it is stolen from you. If you transgress, it transgresses against you in the fairest and most equal way.
    Where is the society that employs this method? Or is it a concept you would implement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Scrooge View Post
    AI is a farce and a charlatan, it can never be equal to OI, it is an attempt to immitate OI, but it can never do it completely.
    We won't know until we know.

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.


  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Awani View Post
    Where is the society that employs this method? Or is it a concept you would implement?
    OI is something that just IS, it is not by choice, it is God's invisible hand, God's OI system of governance of the Universe. In society we have the supreme OI layer and then we have the man made layers of AI, governance, judiciaries, etc which of course are plagued with corruption and injustice, but the OI layer unbeknownst to most is the master equalizer and rules above ALL.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Scrooge View Post
    OI is something that just IS, it is not by choice, it is God's invisible hand, God's OI system of governance of the Universe. In society we have the supreme OI layer and then we have the man made layers of AI, governance, judiciaries, etc which of course are plagued with corruption and injustice, but the OI layer unbeknownst to most is the master equalizer and rules above ALL.
    Then I suggest you read the whole thread because this thread is about systems of governance.

    Donít let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.


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