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Thread: Alchemical & Magickal Symbolism in Religious/Spiritual Traditions & Ancient Alphabets

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florius Frammel View Post
    Are the Sephiroth somehow related to that children game?





    It's called "Himmel und Hölle" (Heaven and Hell, sometimes Earth, Hell and Heaven).

    I used to think the same and I have read about its origins. I think it is impossible to be 100% sure, but those who have studied the origins of the game (I certainly didn't, I have only read their conclusions) somehow agree that the influence is not really Qabalah, but Dante's Divine Comedy. The game seems to have been created in Italy during the Renaissance.

    The idea of the Divine Comedy makes sense... Whilst the graphic looks quite similar to the Tree of Life, it also makes sense to imagine that it's a simplified version of the structure of Hell, Purgatorio o Heaven (in the long run, they all have similar structures for Dante)... and whilst Qabalah was known by then, it's obvious that the Divine Comedy was by far more popular
    Last edited by Andro; 1 Week Ago at 08:10 PM. Reason: Image fix in quote.

  2. #52
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    More codes to add

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Marcus View Post
    I'm sure we can agree the rose (and "rotations") has different interpretations. A passage on the "Rose" (sometimes "Lily") opens the Zohar. The rose was the symbol of Isis (and her name means "Throne".. the rose throne? "Shekhinah", the female aspect of the Divine presence to the Jews).

    The stained glass window shows what I'm about to get into well. The geometry is based on 4/8/16. "Phyllotaxis" is the scientific term for how petals and leaves arrange on plants. The arrangement "rotates" each tier (or layer) to fill the gaps left by the previous tier. Some plants form spirals which follow the fibonacci sequence.

    I like this version of Fludd's rose. Beside it is an Indian yantra. It's a modern creation, but its true to the source material:



    This "phyllotaxis" also describes the geometry I'm always going on about. The division of the circumference into 6 parts, represent the points of the hexagon, cube, and star of david. That is just the beginning of the construction.. the next tier is comprised of 6 circles at the intersections of the first six, and the next tier follows suit. But the 4th tier changes, there are now 12 intersections/circles. After 3 tiers of 12, its 18. So for every 3 rotations, you add another six circles, which turn out to be the points of a another hexagon/cube. When you expand this enough, and consider the center of the circles, what you are left with is in geometry called an "overlapping circle grid". The image on the left is a partial construction (far enough to plot the tree of life and tetraktys), and on the right is something I did a long time ago, almost at my very beginning, based on the grid. I've always called it the Rose Cube/Rose Cross:



    I've discussed the solar wheel (specifically related to this geometry) quite a bit so I won't get into it again.

    So.. Macrocosm, Tau Cross, Rose. I'm pretty sure Levi would have been thinking of Franckenberg's tau-rose from "Tabula Universalis Theosophica Mystica et Cabalistica":



    In light of all the above, here's another image I actually came across before re-writing this reply:



    Whats my point with all this? Francis Yates in "Giordano Bruno and the Hermetic Tradition" (Ficino's Natural Magic) gets pretty warm.. She's not talking about the images I discuss all the time, but I think this is close to describing the "tradition" behind them all. This is heavily chopped up for the relevant parts:

    I think looking east fills in some details. The "science of yantras" is 100% concerned with geometry and the "ritual" construction of the yantras, combined with contemplation/meditation, and what it does for the mind. And this is totally related to the practices of Lull and Bruno. That's what Bruno's diagrams are.. Yantras.

    Here's a major Greek connection to the beehive for the Masons:



    The bee is a favorite topic of mine:



    I would mention since I brought up Isis/Shekhinah, that Wadjet/Eye of Ra is also feminine.
    The Solar wheel and the connection with Krishna or Helios/Apollo here from wiki

    "The Greek ἥλιος is the inherited word for the Sun, from Proto-Indo-European *seh₂u-el,[2] which is cognate with Latin sol, Sanskrit surya,"

    The imagery surrounding a chariot-driving solar deity is likely Indo-European in origin,[8][9] and is common to both early Greek and Near Eastern religions.[10] The earliest artistic representations of the "chariot god" come from the Parthian period (3rd century) in Persia, where there is evidence of rituals being performed for the sun god by Magi, indicating an assimilation of the worship of Helios and Mithras.[8]

    The science of yantra is an area that is a bit of familiar territory for me. I would like to add a few things here before moving on to Yantra/Mantra this is in reference to the drinking or taking of a substance during/before ritual ceremony ie ceremonial or ritual magick

    Soo, tortures and initiations, mental exercise- there is a thread here to PD Newman and

    https://realitysandwich.com/314264/t...asonic-ritual/

    Read that article if you have not already because it nails some important connections

    the way of the sly man, PD Ouspensky wrote about Freemason Gurdijeff in search of the miraculous where he mentions a hidden substance that can be produced by four different paths

    (1) the way of the fakir, who masters his body to the point where he can stand “motionless in the same position for hours, days, months, or years”; (2) the way of the monk, who, by prayer and devotion to God, masters the emotions; (3) the way of the yogi, the one who gains control over the mind. The fourth way " (4) the way of the sly man,the same substance can be found in nature,and the sly man places it into a pill without the loss of time." - I paraphrased this last part I don't have the book in front of me.

    There is so much bullshit out there regarding the Shri Vidya and the Shri Yantra, superstitious or folk belief added on, or just simple embellishment to appear to have a greater knowledge of the subject. I don't claim to be an expert I just want to share a few things I learned.

    Here is a symbol of the Shri Yantra or the Shri Vidya



    Its double meaning is the Tripurasundari or the 15 phases of the moon



    In the Panchadasakshari or the 15 letter Mantra to Subramanya Panchadasakshari Mantra we have the Alchemical link to the releasing of a amrita substance controlled by the phases of the moon.

    Here the Moola Mantra I have attached in the correct form:



    Om Shreem Hreem Kleem IAim Eeem Namm Lamm Souhu Saravanabhavah

    Here is the basic formula for magic words in the correct order
    to seal the magic inside one would at completion of the recitation reverse the words starting with souhu

    The prayer without going into too much detail about the magical words and the esoteric power of the Mantra is to Surya the Sun or here more directly to the Lord Murugan or Pleiades star.

    Here is a depiction of Kartikeya or Murugan who is usually shown this way:



    He rides or is riding a peacock and he has six faces or "phases" Lord Murugan is the God of Kundalini

    The Murugan statue is important here as its creation is linked directly to Boghar the great poet and philosopher, the famous Siddhar Alchemist of Tamil Nadu.

    Boghar as an expert in medicine he used 4448 rare herbs and made 9 poisonous medicine, mixing these 9 poisons into one needs great knowledege and skill, to make a Master Medicine ( One medicine to cure all disease ). Thirumoolar also discuss one such Master Medicine in his book Thiru Mandiram.

    I have mentioned this sacred nectar drink of the philosophers before in this same poem by Boghar where in Boghars 7000 verses he writes of the Shri Yantra in relation to reality.

    What does these life changing visions have to do with yoga? What does this yoga have to do with Alchemy? I do not know yet but we are told by Boghar here that

    "the eight elements will merge into four" and Boghar makes certain that

    He will give your yoga
    the assurance it needs
    by saying,
    "Take your time."
    He'll relate
    the True Polymorph Alchemy...

    and again later

    Nandi can come here easily.
    Being friendly,
    he will give
    the eight into eight;
    the sixty-four.
    The malleable alchemy
    will stand before you
    with folded arms.
    The hidden essence
    will appear explicit
    and complete.

    We are reminded once more here that through this practice all the secrets of alchemy will be given to us by the phases of the moon or Nandi-

    Praise the pure
    Principle of Intelligence.
    Ask the way
    to the Perfection of Alchemy,
    to the Perfection of Yoga,

    and a few verses later

    The path will manifest
    and they'll tell you
    the alchemical process.

    Using the petals of this diagram you climb the elemental seed of the ethers

    In the 1008 petals
    is the pentacle "Invincible".
    All the five...
    the A-kaaram,
    the U-kaaram,
    the M-kaaram,
    the full spectrum of vibration,
    and the bindu
    stand within these five angles.

    And lastly because I will have to add more later

    As the Principle of Intelligence itself
    I leapt into the universe.
    Nandi clearly elucidated
    the nature of the universe.
    For the sake of all beings
    there is a path
    that becomes a vehicle
    for the five senses.
    The universe that appeared before me
    was arranged in layers.
    Grandfather said,
    "Enter the tenth one."
    I took what was given me
    and put it in my mouth
    .
    Another bunch
    of mercurial amalgams
    I tied onto my wrist.
    Off I went.
    Entering the universe
    of fire and light.
    Last edited by Andro; 1 Week Ago at 08:00 PM. Reason: Pix Fix & Video Embed Fix.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by White Belt View Post
    the way of the sly man, PD Ouspensky wrote about Freemason Gurdijeff in search of the miraculous where he mentions a hidden substance that can be produced by four different paths
    Gurdjieff wasn't true Freemason, even more so, both him and Ouspensky had connections with Lower Worlds and were heavily influented by them.

    Which isn't bad on its own. After all, if we speak about matter and this world, it is considered to have Devil as its King, and there are many Eastern legends about snake people and other denizens of Lower Worlds who can provide means to get physical health (very long life) and wealth.

    It is also interesting to note the variation of picture with two snakes, one of the m in the sky, the other - in the earth. I think it can also potentially point at necessity of dealing with Lower Worlds (and not merely discard them and claim them to be "satanic", but rather cooperate with them) in case if someone wants his spiritual path to yield great material well-being.

    Speaking about that, when some alchemists write that only one thing is needed for Great Work, they might mean only sky snake and purely spiritual process are worth of pursuing. Those who say that you actually need two things, they might mean the second snake (Inferior Regions / Lower Worlds, which are considered to be derived from the Higher Being / God / Sky snake). Together with man, those are three, and basically one, there you have riddle of Maria the Prophetess.

    Yet again, those are simply my theories, though I think there might be something in it.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by White Belt View Post
    The Solar wheel and the connection with Krishna or Helios/Apollo here from wiki

    "The Greek ἥλιος is the inherited word for the Sun, from Proto-Indo-European *seh₂u-el,[2] which is cognate with Latin sol, Sanskrit surya,"

    The imagery surrounding a chariot-driving solar deity is likely Indo-European in origin,[8][9] and is common to both early Greek and Near Eastern religions.[10] The earliest artistic representations of the "chariot god" come from the Parthian period (3rd century) in Persia, where there is evidence of rituals being performed for the sun god by Magi, indicating an assimilation of the worship of Helios and Mithras.[8]
    Nice. this is the kind of information I copy/paste and save for future reference. Here's where I break down the geometry of the "solar wheel", specifically in terms of Ezekiel's "chariot", and Apollo's "Quadriga", or "4 wheeled chariot". http://atrightanglestoreality.blogsp...and-other.html
    The sky chariots are of course an evolution of the Egyptians' "boat" or "barge".


    Quote Originally Posted by White Belt View Post
    The science of yantra is an area that is a bit of familiar territory for me. I would like to add a few things here before moving on to Yantra/Mantra this is in reference to the drinking or taking of a substance during/before ritual ceremony ie ceremonial or ritual magick
    Well, I do smoke a substantial amount of weed, but other than that, I am reminded of Buddha's warning about these "byways" to the Way.

    I was always aware of the Sri Yantra, but I guess I didn't know about others. I was aware of the diagrams of the chakras, but didn't know they were "Yantras". I was working on this idea of "ritual geometry" practise for awhile - from personal experience. Probably around 15 years, without any verification of what I was talking about. I finally discovered the term "Ilanot" in terms of Kabbalah, but that wasn't really what I meant. Then I found out about a Gnostic practise, and I worked with the Book of Jeu for awhile. But it wasn't exactly what I was looking for. Through these researches (Ilanot -> Gnostic) it finally led to some references to Yantras. In one of the first books I downloaded, I came across the whole "science of the yantra" thing. I collected a bunch of books on Yantra, Mantra, Tantra, and mudras. Most of the books I have now were published in India. Most are english, but there are a few in Hindu that I keep mainly for the diagrams. I went as far as extracting the diagrams from them all. To be honest, after reading to the first little bit, and dealing with the images, it "knocked" me out of my work phase for awhile, about 6 months. I had to let it all sink in. I think I have some pretty good reference material when its time to revisit it.

    Quote Originally Posted by White Belt View Post
    Read that article if you have not already because it nails some important connections
    Took a quick look for now, but I'm going to go back and read it. I'm less likely to get around to watching youtube videos (just being honest).

    Quote Originally Posted by White Belt View Post
    There is so much bullshit out there regarding the Shri Vidya and the Shri Yantra, superstitious or folk belief added on, or just simple embellishment to appear to have a greater knowledge of the subject. I don't claim to be an expert I just want to share a few things I learned.
    Well this is my general opinion of most Eastern philosophy imported to the West. Which is why, in general, I try to avoid Western(ized) sources and prefer my information straight from the horses mouth (the original source). It's a whole different paradigm. This is why I studied Kabbalah first, because it's a bridge between the "Western (occidental)" and the "Eastern (oriental)". As far as Ouspensky goes, I stay away from anything related to Blatavasky's Theosophy. Regardless, the material you presented is very interesting, and definitely fits right in with the rest. What's with the 15 stations of the moon, though? 2 days per would be 30 days, close to 28.. but they definitely knew it was 28. So how does that work out with the 15? Am I looking at it the wrong way?

    I like yoga. In Kabbalah, the Union is "Devekut", described as a "clinging":

    The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali
    Before beginning any spiritual text it is customary to clear the mind of all distracting thoughts, to calm the breath and to purify the heart.

    1.1. Now, instruction in Union.
    1.2. Union is restraining the thought-streams natural to the mind.
    1.3. Then the seer dwells in his own nature.
    1.4. Otherwise he is of the same form as the thought-streams.
    1.5. The thought-streams are five-fold, painful and not painful.
    1.6. Right knowledge, wrong knowledge, fancy, sleep and memory.
    1.7. Right knowledge is inference, tradition and genuine cognition.
    1.8. Wrong knowledge is false, illusory, erroneous beliefs or notions.
    1.9. Fancy is following after word-knowledge empty of substance.
    1.10. Deep sleep is the modification of the mind which has for its substratum nothingness.
    1.11. Memory is not allowing mental impressions to escape.
    1.12. These thought-streams are controlled by practice and non-attachment.
    1.13. Practice is the effort to secure steadiness.
    ...
    Here's a different, but related 4 levels:

    1. Fana, or annihilation: At this stage the Sufi becomes harmonized with objective reality and seeks the unification of his consciousness. He is intoxicated with divine love.

    2. Baqa, or permanency: Here the Sufi becomes a teacher or qutub; the magnet to which all turn for wisdom. He has stabilized his objective knowledge and became the Perfect Man. Rather than uniting with God, the Perfect Man has subordinated his will to God and lives in and through God. (Traditionally, Sufi teachers are male.)

    3. Sufis attaining the Third Journey become spiritual guides for all in accordance with their abilities, whereas Stage Two teachers work only in their local areas.

    4. In the Fourth Journey, the Perfect Man guides others in the transition at death from physical life to another stage of development invisible to ordinary people. Few attain this plateau of wisdom.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warmheart View Post
    It is also interesting to note the variation of picture with two snakes, one of the m in the sky, the other - in the earth. I think it can also potentially point at necessity of dealing with Lower Worlds (and not merely discard them and claim them to be "satanic", but rather cooperate with them) in case if someone wants his spiritual path to yield great material well-being.

    Speaking about that, when some alchemists write that only one thing is needed for Great Work, they might mean only sky snake and purely spiritual process are worth of pursuing. Those who say that you actually need two things, they might mean the second snake (Inferior Regions / Lower Worlds, which are considered to be derived from the Higher Being / God / Sky snake).
    Let's call it "serpent". In the bible and other ancient sources it covers "sea monster", "dragon", and "snake".

    In the bible, three main different ones are mentioned. There's the bronze serpent of Moses, Nehustan, who is probably not related to the other ones.. but with the "Pole", who knows.

    The two to be considered as a pair are Leviathon and Rehab. Rehab is generally considered to be different from Leviathon. Leviathon is identified with the Nachash Beriah, or "Pole Serpent", and mentioned in Job 26:13. And in kind, Leviathon is identified as Draco, which is "wrapped around" the Pole Star. Draco has been worshipped as a god in the past, and is thought to be the "Baal" in the bible. As Draco occupies every sign in the Zodiac, it is a symbol for the whole "Ecliptic Plane/Sphere". The world (universe) "hangs" by Leviathon's fin.

    The other is Nachash Akalkalon, the Coiled Serpent. The Talmud says the Pole Serpent is the male dragon, and the Coiled Serpent is female. One theory is that the Pole serpent is the constellation of Draco, while the Coiled Serpent is the "inclination" of the Ecliptic Plane (about 23 degrees, the axial tilt of the earth). "The female therefore encompasses the male, this being the mystery of, "a female shall surround a male" (Jeremiah 31:22)"

    I think the female serpent is more likely the "celestial plane/sphere" This motion is defined by the revolution of Earth on it's axis (pointing at the pole star). This is the movement of the "fixed stars", the background constellations. The Zodaic is a thin band of the "ecliptic sphere", along which the planets (moving stars) seem to move (as both they and the Earth move around the sun), movement that is seperate and distinct from that of the Fixed Stars.

    These are the two bands (ecliptic and celestial planes) of the "world soul" in Plato's Timaeus, spoken of as occupying "bodies", the world soul itself being a "body". Where they intersect, Plato describes as a Chi (X). These are the Caput and Cauda Draconis, the head and tail of the dragon. These are the locations were eclipses of the Sun and Moon can occur (The dragon eats the Sun/Moon).



    (I always remember that image as having the two serpents climbing a tree/pole, but in fact they form the pole)

    So I believe these two bands are considered Male and Female, united as one in the World Soul. This is probably the first manifestation of "male/female" in Creation, reflections of the "Higher/abstract" duality of the realms preceeding Creation. And the blueprint of our individual souls. Often symbolized by the Sun and Moon.

    This is what I think the true meaning of this passage from the Zohar is about (The Great Work):

    'Each soul and spirit prior to its entering into this world, consists of a male and female united into one being. When it descends on this earth the two parts separate and animate two different bodies. At the time of marriage, the Holy One, blessed be He, who knows all souls and spirits, unites them again as they were before, and they again constitute one body and one soul, forming as it were the right and left of one individual.... The union, however, is influenced by the deeds of the man, and by the ways in which he walks. If the man is pure, and his conduct is pleasing in the sight of God, he is united with that female part of his soul which was his component part prior to his birth.'
    - Zohar 1:91b

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    Thank you for sharing everyone. It is helpful to see the rotations. So many connections here, very interesting.

    John 1:5
    "The light shines in the darkness,
    and the darkness can never extinguish it."

    1 Kings 8:12-13
    12 Then Solomon prayed, “O Lord, you have said that you would live in a thick cloud of darkness. 13 Now I have built a glorious Temple for you, a place where you can live forever!”

    Source

    Quote Originally Posted by White Belt View Post
    Here is a symbol of the Shri Yantra or the Shri Vidya

    When I first saw this it reminded me of this for some reason.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphim View Post
    John 1:5
    "The light shines in the darkness,
    and the darkness can never extinguish it."

    1 Kings 8:12-13
    12 Then Solomon prayed, “O Lord, you have said that you would live in a thick cloud of darkness. 13 Now I have built a glorious Temple for you, a place where you can live forever!”
    First verse of the Sefer Bahir:

    Rabbi Nehuniah ben HaKana said:
    One verse (Job 37:21) states, "And now they do not see light, it is brilliant (Bahir) in the skies…[round about God in terrible majesty]."

    Another verse, however, (Psalm 18:12), states, "He made darkness His hiding place." It is also written (Psalm 97:2), "Cloud and gloom surround Him." This is an apparent contradiction.

    A third verse comes and reconciles the two. It is written (Psalm 139:12), "Even darkness is not dark to You. Night shines like day -- light and darkness are the same."
    Others:

    16.
    Rabbi Rahumai said: Illumination preceeded the world, since it is written (Psalm 97:2), "Cloud and gloom
    surround Him." It is thus written (Genesis 1:3), "And God said, 'let there be light,' and there
    was light."

    They said to Him, "Before the creation of Israel your son, will you then make him a crown?"
    He replied yes.

    What does this resemble? A king yearned for a son. One day he found a beautiful, precious
    crown, and he said, "This is fitting for my son's head."

    They said to him, "Are you then certain that your son will be worthy of this crown?"
    He replied, "Be still. This is what arises in thought."

    It is thus written (2 Samuel 14:14), He thinks thoughts [that none should be cast away].
    74. And it is written (Psalm 18:12), “He made darkness His hiding place round about, His Succah the darkness of waters, thick clouds of the skies (Shechakim).”

    He said: Regarding this it is written (Isaiah 45:8), “The skies (Shechakim) pour down
    righteousness.”

    This righteousness (Tzadik) is the Attribute of Judgement for the world. It is thus written (Deuteronomy 16:20), “Righteousness, righteousness shall you pursue.”

    Immediately after this, it is written, “that you may live and occupy the land.” If you judge yourself, then you will live. If not, then it will judge you, and it will be fulfilled, even against your will.
    I misremembered one of these being the Kings quote you posted

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    I have not heard of Sefer Bahir before, google says the meaning is "Book of the Bright". These give much to think about, thank you for sharing Greg.

    Came across this doing more research and reading the verses you shared, it feels relevant.

    Psalm 139:13-18
    13 For you fashioned my inmost being,
    you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
    14 I thank you because I am awesomely made,
    wonderfully; your works are wonders —
    I know this very well.
    15 My bones were not hidden from you
    when I was being made in secret,
    intricately woven in the depths of the earth.
    16 Your eyes could see me as an embryo,
    but in your book all my days were already written;
    my days had been shaped
    before any of them existed.
    17 God, how I prize your thoughts!
    How many of them there are!
    18 If I count them, there are more than grains of sand;
    if I finish the count, I am still with you.
    Last edited by Seraphim; 1 Week Ago at 04:10 PM.

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    The Name and Nature of Baphomet

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Marcus View Post
    Nice. this is the kind of information I copy/paste and save for future reference. Here's where I break down the geometry of the "solar wheel", specifically in terms of Ezekiel's "chariot", and Apollo's "Quadriga", or "4 wheeled chariot". http://atrightanglestoreality.blogsp...and-other.html
    The sky chariots are of course an evolution of the Egyptians' "boat" or "barge".




    Well, I do smoke a substantial amount of weed, but other than that, I am reminded of Buddha's warning about these "byways" to the Way.

    I was always aware of the Sri Yantra, but I guess I didn't know about others. I was aware of the diagrams of the chakras, but didn't know they were "Yantras". I was working on this idea of "ritual geometry" practise for awhile - from personal experience. Probably around 15 years, without any verification of what I was talking about. I finally discovered the term "Ilanot" in terms of Kabbalah, but that wasn't really what I meant. Then I found out about a Gnostic practise, and I worked with the Book of Jeu for awhile. But it wasn't exactly what I was looking for. Through these researches (Ilanot -> Gnostic) it finally led to some references to Yantras. In one of the first books I downloaded, I came across the whole "science of the yantra" thing. I collected a bunch of books on Yantra, Mantra, Tantra, and mudras. Most of the books I have now were published in India. Most are english, but there are a few in Hindu that I keep mainly for the diagrams. I went as far as extracting the diagrams from them all. To be honest, after reading to the first little bit, and dealing with the images, it "knocked" me out of my work phase for awhile, about 6 months. I had to let it all sink in. I think I have some pretty good reference material when its time to revisit it.



    Took a quick look for now, but I'm going to go back and read it. I'm less likely to get around to watching youtube videos (just being honest).



    Well this is my general opinion of most Eastern philosophy imported to the West. Which is why, in general, I try to avoid Western(ized) sources and prefer my information straight from the horses mouth (the original source). It's a whole different paradigm. This is why I studied Kabbalah first, because it's a bridge between the "Western (occidental)" and the "Eastern (oriental)". As far as Ouspensky goes, I stay away from anything related to Blatavasky's Theosophy. Regardless, the material you presented is very interesting, and definitely fits right in with the rest. What's with the 15 stations of the moon, though? 2 days per would be 30 days, close to 28.. but they definitely knew it was 28. So how does that work out with the 15? Am I looking at it the wrong way?

    I like yoga. In Kabbalah, the Union is "Devekut", described as a "clinging":



    Here's a different, but related 4 levels:
    Yes I agree with you 100% the land of India is a land of Fakirs, however there are some serious people going about their work there. I also don't know much about Blavatsky, but like Gurdijeff and Ouspensky I think she was a charlatan, but I am getting side tracked.

    If it is cool Greg I would like to send you a message, I have only just started delving into the Kabalah seriously while I have some familiarity with it I need some real books to read, maybe you can help with that.

    Any way, there are several things I wanted to bring out here first. Buddha was possibly an Indo Iranian who grew up around Zoroastrianism, he was a Scythian a culture that killed Zarathustra and brought with it one of the most important aspects of this part of the discussion. The Vedic and Scythian(persian) Zoroastrian influence on Greece . But before we get into that, first a tantric Siddhar quote I am reminded of in response to the Buddhas warning

    Bhairavanada

    I don't know Mantra from Tantra
    Nor Meditation nor anything about a teachers grace.
    Instead, I drink cheap booze and enjoy some women.
    But I sure am going on to liberation, since I got the Kula(guru) path.
    What's more,
    I took some horny slut and consecrated her my "holy wife."
    Sucking up booze and wolfing down red meat,
    My holy alms are whatever I like to eat,
    My bed is but a piece of human skin,
    Say, who wouldn't declare this Kaula religion,
    Just about the most fun you can have.

    Must watch video by scholar Jason Reza Jorjani about Buddha and his Indo Iranian roots
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmRjgTkTldA


    So the Holy Grail, Baphomet, the oblation and the tibetan skull cup.

    The guy I quoted about here is pictured





    So here is a Kapala or a tibetan skull cup.

    Here is an in depth article by P.D. Newman
    http://www.knightstemplar.org/Knight...ictemplary.htm

    This article covers the connection in detail between these subjects. The end of this article should be of great importance here to this discussion.

    According to Von Hammer, the word Baphomet is most likely a combination of the two Greek words Baphe and Metis, the English translation of which is the Baptism of Wisdom - but as we shall see, the use of the word "baptism" here may have less to do with the physical act of submerging the body and raising it up out of water, and more to do with the ritualized act of imbibing of a certain libation from a sacred "cup." Such is the case in The Corpus Hermeticum, a collection of writings attributed to Hermes Trismegistus, the famed author of the Tabula Smaragdina or Emerald Tablet, wherein we read the following:

    "Reason indeed... among all men hath [Deity] distributed, but mind not yet; not that he grudgeth any, for grudging cometh not from him, but hath its place below, within the souls of men who have no mind... He willed, my son, to have it set up in the midst for souls, just as it were a prize... He filled a mighty cup with it, and sent it down, joining a Herald [to it], to whom He gave command to make this proclamation to the hearts of men: Baptize thyself with this cup's baptism,4 what heart can do so, thou that hast faith thou canst ascend to him that hath sent down the cup, thou that doest know for what thou didst come into being!" (The Cup or Monad, vv. 3 & 4)

    "The Knights Templar adopted the Crux decussata as their flag and emblem. They depicted it as crossed leg bones beneath a skull, supposedly as a reference to Golgotha, the Hill of Skulls, but perhaps not without knowledge of the [Gorgon head]…This is especially likely because in Templar lore the skull [was used] as a magical weapon, just as Perseus used the Gorgon head." 5

    "Perseus cut off [Medusa's] head and then used it as a "skull-cup" (skyphos) to teach the rite of Zoroaster to the Persians who took the name of Medes (Medoi) in honor of the Medusa."

    Baphomet, the alleged deific icon of the Knights Templar, has remained something of an enigma to scholars for centuries. The figure was described by some as having been a mysterious severed head which possessed magical qualities. However, the most well-known depiction of Baphomet comes from French occultist and Freemason Eliphas Levi's sketch of the same in his highly influential work The Dogma and Ritual of High Magic. In said book, Baphomet is depicted as being a winged, hermaphroditic hominid with the head and legs of a goat, but having the torso of a man. In our previous treatment of this subject (see "Masonic Templary: Modern Guardians of the Authentic Grail Tradition"1), it was established that the name of Baphomet was, in all probability, a coded reference to an initiatory ritual wherein was made use of a sacred grail of libation, fashioned from the skullcap of a severed head, that is a kapala or skull-cup. The precedent for such a rite has been set by ritual observances throughout the occident and orient alike. So, why then was Eliphas Levi, an occultist of no small amount of learning, apt to depict the figure as being related to a goat? Was Levi simply confused, or was he employing a blind in order to misdirect the eyes of the profane? These are the questions which will be treated in the following paragraphs.

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