Lucid Dreaming

[Illen A. Cluf]

Some suggestions:

1. Perhaps alter the techniques you've been using and switch to something that may work better for you.

2. Also incorporate daily practices, such as remembering to genuinely "wonder" to yourself several times a day if you're currently dreaming or not.

3. Prolong the state between wakefulness and sleep for as long as you can. This is the best "zone" for auto-inception.

4. Maybe you know about this one, it's an old trick: Go to sleep in the afternoon holding an object in your hand that extends beyond the bed. Once you fall asleep, the object falls to the floor, makes some noise and wakes you up. The micro-moment when this happens may lead to powerful revelations for some.

5. Use repetition obsessively when reciting whatever mantras/affirmations you may use for this purpose.

I've tried all but Number 4. Seriously - I've tried just about everything. There might be something in my general or specific makeup that prevents me from accomplishing this. For one thing, I have a disorder that generally results in a lack visual memory. Most of my dreams involve ideas and puzzles rather than visual stories. This doesn't mean that I don't sometimes dream vague shapes, with the 'memory' of what that shape should be, imposed on it, if you know what I mean. I also have difficulty "seeing" objects in my mind, such as people's faces, animals, and other objects. I think the ability to visualize things is very important in lucid dreaming.

[Andro]

So maybe try door number four?

And some good news for you: Not all lucid dreams are visual. You can be lucid with an idea/puzzle while physically asleep, you can consciously interact with it, question it, develop it, take it further, etc.

The Lucid Dreaming Experience is definitely not confined to the visual aspect.

[Illen A. Cluf]

So maybe try door number four?

And some good news for you: Not all lucid dreams are visual. You can be lucid with an idea/puzzle while physically asleep, you can consciously interact with it, question it, develop it, take it further, etc.

The Lucid Dreaming Experience is definitely not confined to the visual aspect.

Then there must be another reason why some people are unable to achieve the state after practicing very significantly more than most others. Certainly, you would think that 50 years of continuous open-minded practice should achieve at least 'some' results, unless there was some innate obstacle?

[Michael Sternbach]

Then there must be another reason why some people are unable to achieve the state after practicing very significantly more than most others. Certainly, you would think that 50 years of continuous open-minded practice should achieve at least 'some' results, unless there was some innate obstacle?

I experienced some of my lucid dreams in conjunction with the intake of certain vibrational remedies. To somebody keen to make such experiences, but finding it difficult to get there, I would recommend experimenting with the latter.

[Awani]

Since this is a thread regarding "lucid dreaming" psychedelics really has nothing to do with it, yet the topic is brought up. Any addicted scumbag gets effects from using any substance constantly - even sugar, which means that it does matter what you "diet". But serious and "normal" use of psychedelics does NOT affect dreams with the only expection being cannabis. But I am not certain proper use of cannabis has this effect (proper as in eating a shitload), but the recreational usage do limit dreams.

Direct experience is where it's at, preferably WITHOUT the use of "Plant Helpers" (those CAN help, no doubt, but the realms one is taken with these "helpers" are confined within the built-in/inherent limitations of such "helpers". Plus, they all have their own personalities and agendas... So IMO it's best to practice/rely "on one's own juices". IMO.)

So with all that in mind, from my perspective you cannot have a lucid dream experience with psychedelics. You can't drive a car when you are on a bike. However you can have an OBE on psychedelics, but that is not what this thread is about as far as I can tell. Although since I have not had an OBE without psychedelics, and since Andro has not had an OBE with psychedelics I cannot be certain that the experience is the same, or of the same sort. But if it's about "leaving your body", then there is 0 % difference. And it doesn't make it better or worse how you achieved it. For now we only have the OBE term, and I would apply it to both scenarios. I am certain dying and having a real OBE is also different - even if the concept of leaving the body is the same.

[Illen A. Cluf]

I experienced some of my lucid dreams in conjunction with the intake of certain vibrational remedies. To somebody keen to make such experiences, but finding it difficult to get there, I would recommend experimenting with the latter.

Like Awani said, that's a different experience altogether. Psychedelics can certainly provide some powerfully clear images, but I'm more interested in the natural process.

I have had an OBE without psychedelics or other stimulants (only one OBE, without any doubt), but have not had lucid dreaming experiences, so I can't compare the two to see if they have some sort of connection.

In order to 'subjectify' my experince, what I was aware of, was having some sort of 'etheric' body, while at the same time, clearly seeing my physical body below me. My vision was also unconstrained, so that I could see in all directions. My point of reference was localized in that etheric body. I could not 'see' this body, but could sort of feel its presence, similar to how you can 'feel' or 'sense' the presence of your physical body.

Andro and Awani, how would you 'subjectify' your lucid dreaming experiences? In other words, how would you describe the experience in your own words - what you personally felt, thought, etc.? Did you have a feeling of being in a body? What was your point of reference?

[Awani]

...but I'm more interested in the natural process.

What is natural process and what is not? The body is constantly infected with different substances that have massive effects on the psyche and the perception of reality. Even internally horomes and testosterone makes life an up and down ride. Some deal with these issues so much they get diagnosed bi-polar.

"The supernatural is natural, the paranormal is normal." - Rupert Sheldrake

In my opinion a lucid dream has no relation to a psychedelic experience at all. Main difference is that a lucid dream can be directed/controlled more than a psychedelic experience. If it is a lucid dream you cannot control I'm not sure I would define it as lucid. Psychedelics is more of a sort of teleportation where you are teleported in a lucid state into another world. A lucid dream is an experience of your inner world full of your own lusts, dreams and hopes whereas a proper pscyhedelic experience would care less about your wishes. Of course each psychedelic experience is different... and ONE major flaw in the arguments in this forum regarding the use of psychedelics is the lack of understanding that it is also not about the "world", the "visuals" or the "trip".

The psycehdelic experience can perform healing as if it was done by a superman version of a shrink. There is a voice that gives you insight that - in my opinion - you cannot receive on your own. Now, this doesn't mean everyone needs such instructions... but for those that do it cannot be brushed away by the concept of being able to achieve the same results using so-called "natural methods". Based on my experience that is incorrect and not possible.

I've been too lazy to have more lucid dreams than I already have had. Working to much or stress and such situations also decrease you chance to dream properly.

[Illen A. Cluf]

What is natural process and what is not?

My interest is not really about the debate about what is 'natural' or not, but what your personal experience with lucid dreaming really was. Here we're talking about some very significant experiences, such as lucid dreaming and OBO experinces, and for the benefit of those who have not had an OBE, I contributed my sincere thoughts of what an OBE was like.

On the other hand, I'm seriously interested in what a lucid dreaming experience is actually like, having unsuccessfully tried to experience them for 5 decades.

But if you (and Andro) wish to disregard explaining them to the benefit of those who have not, that's obviously your choice. Otherwise, I see no benefit for this entire thread whatsoever.

[Awani]

But if you (and Andro) wish to disregard explaining them to the benefit of those who have not, that's obviously your choice.

I don't have the quantity of experience as Andro does, but for me it is just like being awake... the only difference is you can do anything you want and be anyone you want. It's a lucid dream. The problem I have is that it becomes so spectacular and amazing that I "get lost" in the experience and fall back into a non-lucid state... thereby loosing control of the dream again. I have only become lucid when already inside the dream. I have never entered the dream awake at the start. I imagine being awake "going in" changes the playing field a lot, and perhaps that is the key to resist getting lost in the experience and loose the lucidity.

There is another kind of dream that I have had more times than a pure lucid dream, and I am not sure what it's called, but basically it's a dream where I know it is a dream but I somehow still have no control. Like a semi-lucid dream. I am so interested in seeing the dream play out that I don't bother taking control of it.

[Illen A. Cluf]

I don't have the quantity of experience as Andro does, but for me it is just like being awake... the only difference is you can do anything you want and be anyone you want. It's a lucid dream. The problem I have is that it becomes so spectacular and amazing that I "get lost" in the experience and fall back into a non-lucid state... thereby loosing control of the dream again. I have only become lucid when already inside the dream. I have never entered the dream awake at the start. I imagine being awake "going in" changes the playing field a lot, and perhaps that is the key to resist getting lost in the experience and loose the lucidity.

There is another kind of dream that I have had more times than a pure lucid dream, and I am not sure what it's called, but basically it's a dream where I know it is a dream but I somehow still have no control. Like a semi-lucid dream. I am so interested in seeing the dream play out that I don't bother taking control of it.

Thanks for the explanation, Awani! This is quite fascinating, and is different than what I imagined it to be. I'm still trying to understand how these dreams are different from a very 'vivid' dream that you remember when you wake. Are these "vivid" dreams the same as a "lucid" dream? If not, what is the key difference?