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Thread: Metaphysical Alchemy, and the Relationships between systems of Divination

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    Metaphysical Alchemy, and the Relationships between systems of Divination

    I have seen various methods used within systems of divination such as various types of Astrology and even different ways to use I Ching, but currently wondering if there are any relationships between the components and mechanics of separate systems that would allow them to be partially merged and used simultaneously with one another.

    This to me seems like an important yet never discussed aspect of Alchemy that lays at the intersection between the so often discussed dichotomy of what is called "Practical" Alchemy and Spiritual Alchemy. I would say that it is much better described as an actual practical expression of Alchemy rather than any work done in a lab, which to me seems just as impractical as Spiritual Alchemy.

    As an example, Numerology is a good example of an Esoteric practice which, in addition to being a standalone practice, is also a part of various other systems and indeed serves as a foundation. This example would be an extension of that type of thinking to include other practices coming together as well.

    The idea is the use of multiple systems for a single work of Divination. But not just using two systems seperately. Instead it would be the combining of any of their more compatible components and mechanics to gain a sort of multidimensional perspective.

    An example might be how Tarot is influenced by and combines concepts from various practices such as Numerology Kabbalah Astrology ect. But this would not only involve symbolism and concepts, but the components and mechanics that go along with them.

    In short, it might be seen as a sort of Metaphysical Alchemy. This is just a quick overview and there is more to be discussed if anyone is interested.

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    On a surface level glance over alchemical texts it seems, to me, that their writers were heavily influenced by the Arthurian Legends and the main Holy Texts. The former is not really a divination system as much as the latter. One thing that comes to mind is the Enochian Language by Dee and Kelley.

    Don’t let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Awani View Post
    On a surface level glance over alchemical texts it seems, to me, that their writers were heavily influenced by the Arthurian Legends and the main Holy Texts. The former is not really a divination system as much as the latter. One thing that comes to mind is the Enochian Language by Dee and Kelley.

    Ok, so the Holy Grail as the Prima Materia? A mythologization of the inner quest that a person may take in order to reach the Christ within? Would this be a part of your reasoning?

    I understand the Biblical texts to be filled with Astrology, Kabbalah, Numerology, maybe some items that could be argued as influenced by I Ching, Visionary material, Ritual, Prophecy, and as you suggest elements of Alchemy.

    How exactly would you connect the Enochian Language with Alchemy?

    I was actually just thinking about it recently as seeming to have some Alchemical significance but have not definitively worked out what exactly. I just understand it to be "elemental".

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    Quote Originally Posted by noremac View Post
    Ok, so the Holy Grail as the Prima Materia? A mythologization of the inner quest that a person may take in order to reach the Christ within? Would this be a part of your reasoning?
    There's a pretty common interpretation that searching for the Grail or the Philosopher's Stone is the same thing.

    While the Arthurian legends tend to exemplify ideas of Christian virtues, much has been written about an Islamic influence as well.

    Some commentators notice a link between the Green Knight and Al-Khidr. He's sort of the Islamic Metatron:

    To Sufis, al-Khiḍr holds a distinguished position. Although amongst the Sunni scholars there is a difference of opinion about him being still alive, amongst Sunni Sufis there is almost a consensus that al-Khiḍr is still alive, with many respected figures and shaykhs, and prominent leaders claiming having had personal encounters with him. Examples of those who have claimed this are Abdul-Qadir Gilani, al-Nawawi, Ibn Arabi, Sidi Abdul Aziz ad-Dabbagh and Ahmad ibn Idris al-Fasi. Ibn Ata Allah's Lata'if al-Minan (1:84-98) states that there is consensus among the Sufis that al-Khiḍr is alive. In fact there are orders that claim origin with al-Khiḍr himself, or that al-Khiḍr was part of their chain, for example some of the Naqshbandi Haqqani Sufi Order, the Muhammadiyah, the Idrisiyya, and the Senussi are tariqat that had al-Khiḍr as one of the central figures connecting them to the spiritual outflow of Muhammad.

    In Sufi tradition, al-Khiḍr has come to be known as one of those who receive illumination direct from God without human mediation. He is the hidden initiator of those who walk the mystical path, like some of those from the Uwaisi tariqa. Uwaisis are those who enter the mystical path without being initiated by a living master. Instead they begin their mystical journey either by following the guiding light of the teachings of the earlier masters or by being initiated by the mysterious prophet-saint al-Khiḍr.

    Al-Khiḍr has had thus gained enormous reputation and popularity in the Sufi tradition due to his role as an initiator. Through this way come several Sufi orders which claim initiation through al-Khiḍr and consider him their master. Al-Khiḍr had thus come to symbolize access to the divine mystery (ghayb) itself. In the writings of Abd al-Karim al-Jili, al-Khiḍr rules over ‘the Men of the Unseen' (rijalu’l-ghayb)— the exalted saints and angels. Al-Khiḍr is also included among what in classical Sufism are called the ‘’abdāl’’ (‘those who take turns’). In Sufi hierarchy, ‘’abdāl’’ is a mysterious rank. It is thought in Sufism that God decides who will be abdal for a decade before an abdal is born. Adbals are thought as the gainers of mysterious power that is knowing the future also called Ilm-e-ladunni. They are deployed to protect Islam from some unwanted evil activities that threaten the existence of Islam. In a divinely-instituted hierarchy of such saints, al-Khiḍr holds the rank of their spiritual head.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noremac View Post
    How exactly would you connect the Enochian Language with Alchemy?
    I don't. It was just a tip for a possible suggestion for a divination tool + alchemy since the "writers" behind that language/book were alchemists.

    Don’t let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Awani View Post
    I don't. It was just a tip for a possible suggestion for a divination tool + alchemy since the "writers" behind that language/book were alchemists.

    Thanks for the suggestion. Although I don't yet know enough about the Enochian Language to use it as a divination tool, it confirms that this is possible. I have been recently wondering how it might relate to the 21 Major Arcana of Tarot.

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    Good info concerning the Islamic influence, thanks.

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    For whatever it's worth to anyone reading, and to clarify the original post, this should give a better idea concerning the line of thought that could be put into the initial development of structure and patterns.

    Note that since the Practices will be referred to many times, they have been abbreviated:

    Num = Numerology
    Ich = I Ching
    Astro = Astrology
    Kab = Kabbalah
    Alc = Alchemy
    Rit = Ritual [Ceremonial Magic]

    First of all, it would seem the Ich Trigram of the Eastern Paradigm of Mysticism could most readily be seen as equivalent to the Astro Hermetic Trianglular Symbols for Elements of the Western Paradigm of Esoteric Science.

    This becomes even more evident when you consider the Ich Hexagram Lines of the Eastern Paradigm and that it shares the same name with the Rit Hexagram Shape of the Western Paradigm.

    As suggested in the original thread post, different interpretations within different Paradigms, yet arising from the same source and each consisting of a similar result.

    Just like the Ich Trigrams can fall into groups of 4 (this is to say 4 Primal and 4 Temporal), the Rit Hexagram Shape is shown to be broken into parts in order to represent the 4 Elements - symbolically illustrated as Triangles.

    It should also be noted that this breaking apart of the Rit Hexagram is an act of Alc, a practice where you can commonly see the Elements being symbolically illustrated by partial or broken Triangles that are taken from the larger Shape of the Rit Hexagram.

    Also, note that the Rit Hexagram of the Western Paradigm in addition seems to indicate what I tend to call the Sandalphon Cube (which is largely the same as the Metatron Cube, except that it appears lower on the Tree of Life and includes some different Sephirah so that Tiphareth is at its center instead of Da'at), then consider the 6 Lines of the Ich Hexagram (Trigram x2, Inner and Outer) and compare them to the 6 Sephirah associated with the Hexagram of the Kab Tree of Life.

    Furthermore, just like how the Alc Element Symbols were taken from the Rit Hexagram Shape, in realizing that the Astro Planetary Symbols are drawn from the Kab Metatron Cube, one has thereby connected each of these 4 systems of the Western Paradigm of Esoteric Practice to the Ich from the Eastern Paradigm of Mysticism.


    Note that the above is just a portion of a note entry that I thought up and typed just recently. There is a lot more that can be gone into - including the dynamics of how the above items would work together as well as more detail concerning what things of substantive value would be the subject matter of the components.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noremac View Post
    This becomes even more evident when you consider the Ich Hexagram Lines of the Eastern Paradigm and that it shares the same name with the Rit Hexagram Shape of the Western Paradigm.

    As suggested in the original thread post, different interpretations within different Paradigms, yet arising from the same source and each consisting of a similar result.

    Just like the Ich Trigrams can fall into groups of 4 (this is to say 4 Primal and 4 Temporal), the Rit Hexagram Shape is shown to be broken into parts in order to represent the 4 Elements - symbolically illustrated as Triangles.

    It should also be noted that this breaking apart of the Rit Hexagram is an act of Alc, a practice where you can commonly see the Elements being symbolically illustrated by partial or broken Triangles that are taken from the larger Shape of the Rit Hexagram.
    I can't speak to divination, but in context of other message threads, I would mention that there is a lot of mathematics and number theory to be derived from the Iching. Googling "Paul Martin Smyth Lo shu" should bring up a paper on academia.edu. I'm not sure if it's that paper, or another posted under that account. I know others before him have researched it along those lines as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by noremac View Post
    Also, note that the Rit Hexagram of the Western Paradigm in addition seems to indicate what I tend to call the Sandalphon Cube (which is largely the same as the Metatron Cube, except that it appears lower on the Tree of Life and includes some different Sephirah so that Tiphareth is at its center instead of Da'at), then consider the 6 Lines of the Ich Hexagram (Trigram x2, Inner and Outer) and compare them to the 6 Sephirah associated with the Hexagram of the Kab Tree of Life.
    There is no such thing as the "Kabbalistic Metatron's Cube". Not in jewish kabbalah, not in hermetic kabbalah. there is no ancient tradition called "sacred geometry". There is no seed of life, flower of life, egg of life. This is made up new age gibberish that dates back to the 1990s. It is based on a workshop by a guy name Bernard Perona, who uses the pseudo Drunvalo Melchizedek. He claims to be an "interdimensional walk-in", Thoth, from the ancient civilization of Atlantis. It was included in a vanity published book "Nothing in this Book is True But it's Exactly the Way Things Are". Every Facebook group, every website that covers this material over and over takes it from here. That is the source. All the geometry and metaphysical speculation of the ancients.. is was just GEOMETRY.

    The hexagon construction (of straight edge and compass) are the points that divide the circle into 6. You can draw a line through the center of the a circle, and draw a line perpendicular to that that line at the center point, and divide the circle into four. That's a square in 2D, the hexagon points are also the points of the cube, 3D. There is a more technical se&c construction to form the pentagram/gon, and that splits the circle into 5. We use x,y and x,y,z, caretesian coordinates, they spoke in terms of east/west/north/south, with above and below added for 3D space.

    The tools of SE&C, compass and straight edge represent the two basic, primal motions of the creation, according to the Greeks and Hebrews. The straight line (yasher) and circle (igul).

    Quote Originally Posted by noremac View Post
    to indicate what I tend to call the Sandalphon Cube
    Then you've missed the point. Metatron is a "magical" name whose true meaning and purpose seems to be largely forgotten, even by the "authorities". Sandalphon is a less meaningful alias. In geometry, what is the relationship between the line and circle? It's the radius and circumference. The ratio of which you mentioned in the other post in context of irrational (or transcendental) numbers.. Pi. 314. That's the value of Metatron. (it's also the value of Shaddai, and the meaning of the statement, regarding Metatron, "My name is in him"). You may have read that a version of Metatron is "primodial", is after God, but exists prior to any creation. Can you have anything except a zero-dimensional point without Pi? You certainly can't have a 2D or 3D euclidean space without it. You can't say it, it's "Ineffable". The first thing created is "Space", and you can't have that without Metatron first.

    In this sense, EVERY cube is "Metatron's cube", in that it's dependent on Pi (Metatron). No Metatron (pi) no cube. No geometry or even circles at all. One of the interpretations of "Metatron" is Measure (Metron) of the Throne (thronos). The merkaba mystics contemplated the "patterns of the divine throne" (which I will sooner or later prove is referring to geometric cosmogonical diagramns)

    Da'at is not "real", its "virtual". There are 10 Sefirot. Not 9, Not 11. 10. On an important level they are the same as the Greek's Decad. When it is included, there should be no tree of life paths connected to it.

    The gap between Tiferet and the 3 supernals (The "GodHead") is the abyss that must be crossed or the mountain that must be climbed (Moses). It represents the "Fall", our seperation from the Divine (realm). The supernals are usually considered to be outside of human experience (even for the mystics), and claiming ascent to them considered heretical (In Sufism, claiming "Godhead" is one of the signs of Dajjal). Thus Da'at represents an ascent - which stops short of the Godhead. Thats all Da'at is.

    When you continue the hexagon construction you create what is more technically referred to as an "overlapping" circles grid. And with this you can plot a proper Greek Tetraktys and hebrew tree of life. But here is where you lose me.. The center of this IS Tiferet by default. One of the things I point out is that it ends up being the first circle you've drawn when geometrically constructing the Tree. In you imagine an animation of constructing in in the different layers of circles, and reversing it, it all collapses on Tiferet.

    Now in Kabbalah, almost any reference to the The Holy One, Blessed Be He refers to Tiferet. Outside of Kabbalah, it is commonly used to refer to God during instances of "Theophany", when God chooses to talk to one of his prophets or whatever. Now it is also taught that when this happens, it's not actually God-God that they are facing, since no mortal flesh could withstand it. On this occassions, it's God's angel that's doing the communicating. And this angel is Metatron. The burning bush was metatron.. the one that revealed to Moses on Sinai was Metatron. The angel leading them is Metatron. So Metatron and Tiferet are the same.. Or, the mystic, imagined in the center as Tiferet/Creator, ascends and is met by Metatron, who reveals to him (remember Al-Khidr mentioned earlier).

    Metatron/Tiferet represents the "male aspect" of the Divine Presence, and Shekinah, the female side. This "marriage in heaven" is the Kabbalists goal. This represent the male/female sides of our soul (mind?):

    'Each soul and spirit prior to its entering into this world, consists of a male and female united into one being. When it descends on this earth the two parts separate and animate two different bodies. At the time of marriage, the Holy One, blessed be He, who knows all souls and spirits, unites them again as they were before, and they again constitute one body and one soul, forming as it were the right and left of one individual.... The union, however, is influenced by the deeds of the man, and by the ways in which he walks. If the man is pure, and his conduct is pleasing in the sight of God, he is united with that female part of his soul which was his component part prior to his birth.' - Zohar 1:91b

    Remembering that Metatron = Pi = 314, take a look at the numbers of these verses:

    Exodus
    3:14 God said to Moses, “I am who I am.[a] This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am has sent me to you.’”
    33:14 The Lord replied, “My Presence will go with you, and I will give you rest.”

    Ta-da. This is Gematria.

    There are 5 sefirot surrounding Tiferet. These are the "Five Gates" mentioned in the Zohar. Tiferet is the 6th. If you raised it one notch, it could represent the Crown/Head. As it stands in the fallen tree, it's connected to the lower world through Yesod/Phallus, but has lost it's head. To raise it connects the Above and the Below.

    All of this I've mentioned in the forums fairly recently. Some of the material in these replies I've mentioned again and again. So I will add something new.

    The first part i've covered many times, from the first chapter of the Sefer Yetzirah:

    Four - fire from water: he carved them and hewed in it the throne of glory, and the Ofanim and the Serqfim, and the holy living creatures, and the ministering angels. And from the three of them he founded his abode, as it is said: he makes his angelswinds, his servants a flaming fire (Ps.l04:4).

    Five - he sealed above. He chose three simple letters and fixed them in his great name - YHW. And he sealed with them the six edges (of the universe), and turned upwards and sealed it with YHW.
    Six - he sealed below. He turned downwards and sealed it with YWH.
    Seven - he sealed the east. He turned in front and sealed it with HYW.
    Eight - he sealed the west. He turned behind and sealed it with HWY.
    Nine - he sealed the south. He turned to his right and sealed it with WYH.
    Ten - he sealed the north. He turned to his left and sealed it with WHY.


    The decad has been discuss, the elements, and now comes the creation of space. Many people have made this out to be a cube, 4 sides, top, bottom. But they miss the fact that it describes the geometric construction of the cube, the "flower" pattern of 7 circles.


    And from the opening passage of the Zohar:

    Rabbi Chizkiyah opened the discussion with the verse, "As the rose amongst the thorns" (Shir Hashirim 2:2). HE ASKS: What is the rose? AND HE REPLIES: It is the Community of Yisrael (Israel), WHICH IS MALKUTH. Because there is a rose; and there is a rose. Just as the rose among the thorns is tinged with red and white, so is the Community of Yisrael affected by the qualities of judgment and mercy. Just as the rose has thirteen petals, so the Community of Yisrael is surrounded by the thirteen attributes of Mercy. Thus, between the first mention of the name Elohim, WHICH APPEARS IN THE PASSAGE, "IN THE BEGINNING ELOHIM CREATED" (BERESHEET 1:1) TO THE SECOND MENTION OF ELOHIM, THERE ARE THIRTEEN WORDS IN THE VERSE, WHICH TRANSLATE AS "THE, HEAVEN, AND THE, EARTH, AND THE EARTH, WAS, WITHOUT FORM, AND VOID, AND DARKNESS, WAS UPON, THE FACE, OF THE DEEP, AND THE SPIRIT" (IBID. 2). These words surround and guard the Community of Yisrael.

    After this, THE NAME ELOHIM is mentioned another time in the passage "ELOHIM MOVED UPON" (BERESHEET 1:2). And why is it mentioned again? In order to bring out the five rigid leaves that surround the rose. And these five LEAVES represent the five gates of salvation. And this secret is written about in the verse, "I will raise the cup ofsalvation" (Tehilim 116:13). This is the "cup of benediction" that is raised after the meal. The cup of benediction must rest on five fingers, and no more, just as the rose rests on five rigid leaves that represent the five fingers. And this rose is the cup of benediction. FROM THE second to the third mention of the NAME Elohim, there are five words, WHICH TRANSLATE AS "MOVED, OVER, THE SURFACE, OF THE WATERS, AND SAID." AND THESE WORDS PARALLEL THE FIVE LEAVES. From this point, THE VERSE CONTINUES, "ELOHIM SAID...LET THERE BELIGHT" (Beresheet 1:3). After this light was created, it was concealed and enclosed within that Brit (covenant) that entered the rose and fructified it.This is referred to as "a tree bearing fruit whose seed is within it" (Ibid. 11) and this seed is the Brit.



    Now I believe this is the Kabbalah centre translation that turns "Shoshanah" to "lily".. I've manually changed it back to rose.. what kind of lily has thorns.. anyways. For my purposes, let's just pay attention to the numbers. The "five over five" is a callback to a verse in the same chapter of the Yetzirah that I quote above

    "The ten sefirot are the basis - the number of the ten fingers, five opposite five, and the covenant of unity is exactly in the middle by the word of the tongue and mouth and the circumcision of the flesh."

    5 "gates/leaves", 13 "Petals"


    So we start with the flower pattern




    And we finish (well, the first stage anyways, the construction can actually keep going) like this:



    Have you ever counted the circles? There's 6 rows of 3 for 18. Plus the center is 19.

    Here's the "Five gates"




    Now, "Tiferet" is "given", it's you/me/us, it's not included. So we're dealing with the 18 that are spreading out around us. But "North" of Tiferet is not a sefirot, so subtracting 5 is 13.




    5 "leaves" surround by 13 "petals". This would be the blossom upside down I guess with the leaves underneath. I kinda see it as the opposite, the gates being the petals and the 13 surrounding being leaves. (obviously with my colour scheme).

    This last bit might be a stretch, but I can imagine these 5 gates delineating a "Cup" that is held with "FIve":




    According to my records (File dates), I created these last 3 images on March 4th, 2015 to discuss just this very stuff, and this is my first time actually posting it for the world to see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Marcus View Post
    There is no such thing as the "Kabbalistic Metatron's Cube".
    You are right on that one. I should be more discerning about which version of "Kabbalah" is being dealt with.

    I am not surprised it is not ancient (although I have been using the word "Kabbalah" for convenience, I already knew it didn't come from Traditional Jewish Kabbalah per se, even if it has been suggested as representative of the very Kabbahlistic concept of the Merkaba), but this is the first time I am hearing about the source of the Metatron Cube being so recent. I had just assumed it came from the Christian version of Kabbalah around the time of the Golden Dawn being established.

    Not sure if it's time of creation nor even the strangeness of it's creator invalidates it though. Despite the New Age clutter I often see it exposed to, I have looked at it in at least some detail and have felt that it's has a good deal of value and hidden gems in its symbolism.

    I don't have time to reply to your whole message just yet, but looks like some good info there and I will read it further before saying more.

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