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Thread: On Creation, The Stone and The World to Come.

  1. #31
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    Aren't the Sephiroth with their ten names for god based on that same idea?

  2. #32
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    There's only polytheistic worship at the beginning of mankind. We can't say it all started with universal oneness.
    There is no proven uniformed monotheistic religious worship among hunter gatherers.
    At the birth of agriculture a set of gods appear that are recorded by different isolated civilizations.
    From this set the patriarch of the gods, monotheism eventually collates into the One deity.
    Last edited by Kibric; 01-14-2020 at 07:45 PM.

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Florius Frammel View Post
    Aren't the Sephiroth with their ten names for god based on that same idea?
    Yes.
    But one must maintain the understanding that the Sephiroth on their own are nothing.

    Polytheism is when one thinks the Sephiroth are sovereign on their own and he treats them as a plurality of sovereignties.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kibric View Post
    There's only polytheistic worship at the beginning of mankind. We can't say it all started with universal oneness.
    We'll probably never know. If I would make a guess, I'd say there were two exoteric(Sun and Moon) and one esoteric.

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Kibric View Post
    There's only polytheistic worship at the beginning of mankind. We can't say it all started with universal oneness.
    It isn't that clear.

    Because even among polytheistic systems there is a clear tendency to gravitate towards a hierarchy of gods, with one god being at the top.

    So it's not clear at all whether monotheism devolved into polytheism by seeing the lower gods/power as sovereigns on their own.
    Or whether polytheism evolved to monotheism by doing away with all the lesser gods/powers and attributing sovereignty only to the top god.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturneus View Post
    Yes.
    But one must maintain the understanding that the Sephiroth on their own are nothing.

    Polytheism is when one thinks the Sephiroth are sovereign on their own and he treats them as a plurality of sovereignties.
    Sure, that's basically what Greg was saying if I understood him right.

  7. #37
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    Right. Its that so far that's the best historical model we can come up with.
    I said no proven monotheism in hunter gatherers because there is some evidence which isn't accepted by the mainstream.
    We only have so much to go on at this point.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kibric View Post
    There's only polytheistic worship at the beginning of mankind. We can't say it all started with universal oneness.
    There is no proven uniformed monotheistic religious worship among hunter gatherers.
    At the birth of agriculture a set of gods appear that are recorded by different isolated civilizations.
    From this set the patriarch of the gods, monotheism eventually collates into the One deity.
    You can have only one God and many at the same time if you consider each God to be a smaller part of the main God. Most - if not all - of the early people were animists, shamanic, pantheistic or sun worshippers. There is also indication they were egalitarian, anarchistic and peaceful if we look at tribal people today that have had a long lineage into the past. For example the great people called the Penan People.

    The Egyptian Pharaoh Akhenaten was one - if not the first - to create a monotheistic religion. We don't know for sure which Pharaoh ruled during Exodus, but Akhenaten is one contender. There are even suggestions Moses was his brother. If so it could be that Judaism somehow inspired monotheism... but Akhenaten's monotheism God was the Sun. And Moses, during this period, was a murderer. But don't worry... Jesus will forgive him.

    Don’t let the delusion of reality confuse you regarding the reality of the illusion.


  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Awani View Post
    You can have only one God and many at the same time if you consider each God to be a smaller part of the main God. Most - if not all - of the early people were animists, shamanic, pantheistic or sun worshippers. There is also indication they were egalitarian, anarchistic and peaceful if we look at tribal people today that have had a long lineage into the past. For example the great people called the Penan People.

    The Egyptian Pharaoh Akhenaten was one - if not the first - to create a monotheistic religion. We don't know for sure which Pharaoh ruled during Exodus, but Akhenaten is one contender. There are even suggestions Moses was his brother. If so it could be that Judaism somehow inspired monotheism... but Akhenaten's monotheism God was the Sun. And Moses, during this period, was a murderer. But don't worry... Jesus will forgive him.

    Moses predates Akhenaten by few years.

    The whole of Egyptian chronology is riddled with problems and it doesn't add up, which is ADMITTED by Egyptologists themselves, yet it is still used as the measuring rod of Ancient Mid East Chronology, G-d forbid Academia would give Jewish chronology a chance.

    The reason Egyptian chronology is so messed up and so long is mainly because they still haven't realized which many Pharoas they consider to be Pharaohs of all of Egypt are actually Pharaohs of only lower or upper Egypt.

    So Akhenaten is reported to have reigned during the New Kingdom but really he reigned during the what would be the beginning of the middle kingdom.
    Right after it fell at the end of the old Kingdom during the reign of Pepi II and his successor who were the Pharaohs of the Exodus (Hence why the fall of the old kingdom, Ipuwer papyrus.)

    But really Pepi II reigned around 1330 bc... ish. The reason they date him to 2000 bc is again because they got their chronology wrong by confusing between upper and lower pharaohs thinking each is a Pharoah of all of Egypt.


    Akhenaten was just trying to revive Egypt by adopting some sort of a hybrid between polytheism and monotheism as a reaction to witnessing how Egypt was laid waste by some strange monotheistic G-d of shepherds.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturneus View Post
    I would like to start from the point of there being, in being, consciousness, the consciousness of G-d, which in the tongue of Kabbalists is called "Ein Soph Aur", Light with no end.
    The reason I start from this point is that I am not able to perceive and understand the stages that come before it.

    This would require an active imagination to conduct a thought experiment.

    According to the Platonist, the Monad, the divine consciousness emanates creation from itself thus creating the emanations.
    But this poses a problem for the Kabbalists, for how it is possible that the emanations be stable?
    In the mind of the Kabbalist, any such emanation would surely be crushed, burned, and destroyed by the consciousness (henceforth referred to as Light) that surrounds it.
    A seed needs a womb to protect it from the outside world yet the seed comes from the outside world, it must have an egg surrounding and protecting it, as is alluded to by Hermes Trismegistus
    It is actually identical in Plato...
    i.e, "you are to say that the objects of knowledge not only receive from the presence of the good their being known, but their very existence and essence is derived to them from it, though the good itself is not essence but still transcends essence in dignity and surpassing power." Republic 508e

    The Form of Good is above the Being.
    The Form of Good gives something to all the other things, you can call it a vessel if you want to... it's also called the "being", even if the Form of Good does not have a Being itself.

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