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Thread: HIM

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    Taking it in a somewhat different direction, but yes, definitively.
    So glad to hear you will be continuing with the lab work.

    Not wishing to sound rude or condescending in any way, but from what I have read, I can see there are a few misconceptions with your Work and what "Central Salt" actually is.

    I will think on this overnight and try to find a way to approach this.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    On page 40 of the bilingual version, he first refers to it as "Venus", when he discusses the "Secret Solution" or the "Magic Marriage" or the "Magnetic Coalescence of the Earth with the Sky". He explains how our "Venus," via this "Magnetic Coalescence", is "dissolved" into a water, but this is not entirely technically accurate. The better word is "liquefied", because it is not a common dissolution. The result of this "Magnetic Coalescencee" between "Earth & Sky" gives us the First Mercury, sometimes referred to as "Common Mercury" (NOT "vulgar" Hg) and also as "Mercury Simplex" (Urbigerus, Citculatum Majus). It is not YET "our" Philosophical Mercury.

    You can compare this to Hermetic Recreations, especially where it mentions the difficulty to dissolve "The Matter" (which is "of a Calx/Lime nature" as per St. Didier, and also see where Venus is born in the Painting), unless going back to the same "Universal Source", to bring render its "Spirit" counterpart (the one containing the "Acid Principle").

    In previous chapters, especially in the Introduction, ICH also discusses the possible Origins of our "Venus" or "Magnet" in greater detail.

    Moreover, Ali Puli is surprisingly and uncharacteristically explicit in describing what is required for our "Central Salt" to form (in "Centrum Naturae Concentratum").

    It is those Authors that I mostly followed when rendering this "Matter", plus additional clues from here and there and a healthy dose of Clear Thinking, further complemented by vivid dream guidance from my own "past" lives memories...

    Additionally, and this is not something I can explain chemically, this "Venus/Central Salt" seems to have a special affinity to form in more "oily" environments, and it also ascends to the top of the "water" in the vessel.
    Hi Andro.

    I thought that would likely be the page you were referring to as it is one of the only times the author mentions copper. It doesn't specifically mention the "birth of Venus" It mentions both iron and copper here, but this presents a difficulty because on pages 13-14, the author quotes Elucidarius Majore, who specifically states that the materia lapidus is NOT found in the metals, especially in gold or silver, or in the minerals. Thus it makes us wonder why the mention of iron and copper.

    However, it is possible that iron and copper are either mentioned as allegories (thus copper represents the feminine Venus principle while iron or Mars represents the male principle), or that, although they do not represent the materia lapidus, they may be useful in the operation, perhaps to orient the matter towards the mineral nature.

    I.C.H. uses a different materia lapidus, which is attracted "from the air" by the salts contained in "our water", especially during certain times of night, conditions and phases of the Moon. This water, or rather the salts in the water, is the magnet which attracts the materia lapidus.

    Ali Puli is especially explicit on the source of "our water", regarding this approach.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by black View Post
    So glad to hear you will be continuing with the lab work.

    Not wishing to sound rude or condescending in any way, but from what I have read, I can see there are a few misconceptions with your Work and what "Central Salt" actually is.

    I will think on this overnight and try to find a way to approach this.
    Are you trying to set yourself up as some sort of "Authority" on the matter? Like your attempt to be the one metric of "correctness" in your other divination games?

    You evaded my question, which you also asked me: Did YOU have any Success in the Work with your methods?

    As for the "misconceptions", the sentiment is entirely mutual

    Please share what you will, regardless of what you may perceive as "misconceptions".

    Everything is Spirit. All the other names and terms are referring to different states/manifestations/coagulations of the very same Sub-Stance.
    Last edited by Andro; 09-10-2021 at 05:05 PM.
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illen A. Cluf View Post
    Ali Puli is especially explicit on the source of "our water", regarding this approach.
    So is ICH.
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    So is ICH.
    Yes, there is especially one statement that is quite a pearl!

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illen A. Cluf View Post
    Yes, there is especially one statement that is quite a pearl!
    Indeed! I believe we are referring to the same one

    Furthermore, this statement is supported by many other similar hints in the literature, although not necessarily SO explicit
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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    Indeed! I believe we are referring to the same one
    Yes, we can only be talking about the same quote.

    Furthermore, this statement is supported by many other similar hints in the literature, although not necessarily SO explicit
    Actually there is another treatise besides ICH and Ali Puli that is even more explicit.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andro View Post
    Collecting a workable amount of this Salt took me two-three days.

    This Salt rises to the top of our water under certain conditions.

    For more quantity of this Salt, one simply uses more vessels and more water, both of which are easy, handy and cheap to obtain for everyone.

    Ali Puli (among others) is quite explicit about the required "ingredients" for this ridiculously simple process, which basically occurs with hardly any intervention.

    I believe Christophorus mentioned the appearance of such a salt in one of his experiments. I believe he's doing something very right
    I'm going to study it too.
    Thank you! Andro
    A+M+D+G+
    Christophorus

  9. #59
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    Hi Illen

    From Illen A. Cluf
    It doesn't specifically mention the "birth of Venus" It mentions both iron and copper here,

    Thus it makes us wonder why the mention of iron and copper.

    However, it is possible that iron and copper are either mentioned as allegories (thus copper represents the feminine Venus principle while iron or Mars represents the male principle

    What you are suggesting here is correct Illen, the Venus and Mars is our male and
    female ... Our Agent and Patient.

    This is a huge stumbling block where we all suffer misconceptions in the Work.

    The marriage between these two is the Great Alchemic Wedding.

    To have this Alchemic Wedding, one of the partners must be the Alchemists Universal Mercury (the Secret Solvent) and from their union we obtain the Universal Prize.

    I.C.H. uses a different materia lapidus, which is attracted "from the air" by the salts contained in "our water", especially during certain times of night, conditions and phases of the Moon. This water, or rather the salts in the water, is the magnet which attracts the materia lapidus.


    Yes this is also correct Illen, but this is only a Proof of Concept Experiment.

    Even this simple experiment can cause a great deal of confusion / misconception.

    With that process we can use potassium carbonate made from pot ash, but what the Old Masters found to be even better was Potassium Hydroxide.

    Potassium Hydroxide is a greatly stronger Hygroscopic material giving superior and faster results to this experiment.

    To get pot. hyd. from pot. cab. this is where the shells come into play, sea shells, egg shells, coral or some of the Calcium rich minerals that we have all read about in the old Masters books.

    From these Calcium materials they produced Calcium Hydroxide.

    Now if we understand some basic chemistry of a double decomposition reaction we are able to see how they got their Potassium Hydroxide.

    A study of this process is advisable to also see how they rectified their pot. hyd. with pure Alcohol.

    Some of the Old Masters also wrote about using salt water or table salt for this double decomposition reaction ... I felt this needed to be added for a bit more clarity on this experiment.

    Same theory just different materials.

    As Mr. Andro pointed out with Botticelli's Birth of Venus, it tells a big story.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by black View Post
    This is only a Proof of Concept Experiment.
    It's much more than that. It's one of the major ways to obtain our First ("virgin") Earth. But there are other ways, too.

    I personally don't know anyone who works this way, no one I know is aware of this simple process.

    Like I wrote before, I believe Christophorus has "stumbled" upon it in his own way, and noticed the peculiarity of this phenomenon, enough to pursue further study.

    Quote Originally Posted by black View Post
    With that process we can use potassium carbonate made from pot ash, but what the Old Masters found to be even better was Potassium Hydroxide.

    Potassium Hydroxide is a greatly stronger Hygroscopic material giving superior and faster results to this experiment.

    To get pot. hyd. from pot. cab. this is where the shells come into play, sea shells, egg shells, coral or some of the Calcium rich minerals that we have all read about in the old Masters books.

    From these Calcium materials they produced Calcium Hydroxide.

    Now if we understand some basic chemistry of a double decomposition reaction we are able to see how they got their Potassium Hydroxide.

    A study of this process is advisable to also see how they rectified their pot. hyd. with pure Alcohol.

    Some of the Old Masters also wrote about using salt water or table salt for this double decomposition reaction ... I felt this needed to be added for a bit more clarity on this experiment.

    Same theory just different materials.

    As Mr. Andro pointed out with Botticelli's Birth of Venus, it tells a big story.
    It does tell a big story, but it has nothing to do with anything you wrote above.

    Here, we're not dealing with Potassium Hydroxide or any other Hygroscopic Salt.

    Our "First Earth" is not hygroscopic at all. Nor does it dissolve in either polar or non-polar solvents.

    The "Magnetic Coalescence of the Earth with the Sky" is actually the first "dissolution", but it's not really a dissolution, but a liquefaction of the matter. BIG difference.

    Common Deliquescence has nothing to do with it, unless, as some writers are joking, one has reason to do additional work.

    For example, if we repeatedly dissolve and coagulate Potash in the open air (via common deliquescence), after many cycles of Solve & Coagula it will at some point become insoluble and no longer hygroscopic.

    There we start to get to the "interesting" stuff, but this process can be avoided entirely by rendering the First Earth directly, as I mentioned above.

    Note: All this stuff I'm talking about is stuff I've done myself, experimentally.
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