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Thread: Von dem grossen stein der uhr-alten

  1. #1
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    Von dem grossen stein der uhr-alten

    Does anyone know where a modern German transcript of this treatise by Basil Valentine can be found? (It is usually included with his Twelve Keys.)

    The English translations are very innacurate, and I would like to see the German original for comparison.

    I can find the original older German language version, but am looking for a modernized German transcript.

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    Thank you Seraphim, but as mentioned, I had no trouble locating the original language German texts. I was looking for a transcript, but converted to the modern German language (spelling).

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    Ah ok, sorry that's all I could find in German.
    Last edited by Seraphim; 01-09-2022 at 09:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Illen A. Cluf View Post
    I had no trouble locating the original language German texts. I was looking for a transcript, but converted to the modern German language (spelling).
    Dear Illen, I doubt any such little treasure is out there, but who knows... Otherwise, you might have to employ a good transcriber

    For anyone else who tries to goggle this document, Illen means a version that has been (fully and properly) transcribed to modern Latin script, as opposed to the older "Broken Script" (Fraktur).
    |

  6. #6
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    Does this help?

    Quote Originally Posted by Illen A. Cluf View Post
    I was looking for a transcript, but converted to the modern German language (spelling).
    Does this help?

    111.JPG



    ment
    potrebe.
    Schrifften/ fo iptro man to mehr
    überzeuget werden, daß von denen
    Alchimiſten keiner deutlicher geſchrie:
    benalser. Derowegen thun alle die
    jenigen/ welche ſich auf die Alchimie
    legen wollen, gar wohl/ wann fit
    dicſen zu allen Zeiten berühmten
    fromñen Benedidiner, zu threm Hand-
    Buch halten/ ihn die einige Richt.
    Schnur aller ihrer Operationen fevn
    laſſen/ und andere Alchimiſten nad
    dieſem/ als einen rechten Probirſtein
    examioiren/ fo werden ſie gar bald
    lernen was Wahr oder Falfcb in der
    Alchimie iſt/ werden aud/ wann fie
    in ihrer Arbeit emſig und in dem
    Betten umb GOttes Beiſtand be
    ſtandig verbleiben/ erfabren/ daß
    auch in dieſem Stück GOtt ihren
    Fleiß und Arbeit mit einein gelegnes
    ten End kronen werde.


    I don't know DE, so I dont know if this even makes sense... but i'm tring to give you tech help here

    This is done with an App in the phone: Text Scanner. Just take a picture and let it recognize it.
    Abbyy Finereader is the best tool for this kind of work. It can transcribe and translate full PDF's. You can try it for free to check if it works (Windows version 15) well with Fraktur.


    C.
    Ab Uno - XPhorus

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    Thanks, Christophorus. I have used those exact techniques, although the Text Scanner developed a virus and I had to remove it. But even with a transcription, the language is still written in "Fraktur" and won't translate properly. There are literally many hundreds of Fraktur German words that are no longer spelled as they are today. Dutch is similar - I recently looked at a Dutch manuscript from the 17th century, and in the first 50 pages alone, there were over 300 different words that are spelled different than today. Many of those words are repeated numerous times, so in 50 pages alone, there are well over a thousand incorrect words. If you then put that through a translation program, you will not get very good results.

  8. #8
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    Not sure what you mean here. Do you mean you don't actually speak German, but are looking for a digital text of this book translated into modern German so you can put it though a translation program? If so, would a text of it translated into English or any other language do as well? Not that I know where to find one of those either, but perhaps somebody else does.

    That transcription that Christophorus posted is full of errors, by the way, I can see that at a glance - it would certainly puzzle a translation program. No disrespect to Christophorus or to the computer program he used - I don't expect it was designed for that old German black-letter writing. Black-letter is pretty puzzling - it's a tall order for a human who isn't used to it, never mind a computer!

  9. #9
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    Yes, that's what I meant - there are fairly good German translation programs available, and with my limited understanding of German (similar to Dutch), I could probably do a fairly decent translation.

    There is an English translation, as I mentioned above, but the translation is of very poor quality. That is exactly why I wanted to find a modern German version of this treatise in the first place.

    As for Christophorus' transcription, it is full of errors for the very reason that I mentioned, that it is written in old German, called "Fraktur". That is exactly why it can't be easily transcribed and translated. You would still have to modernize all the old German (fraktur).

    I'm currently "modernizing" a 17th Century Dutch/Frisian treatise. In the first 50 pages alone, I have already made about 2,000 corrections, and I'm only about 2/3 done. I expect about 3,000 corrections, or an average of 60 corrections per page. That's why "modernizing" old texts is a daunting task.

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