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Thread: The Philosopher's Stone and Immortality

  1. #11
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    It also sounds like Quantum Computers may make human consciousnesses immortal in a certain sense... A freaky thought really... a new Pharonic age, perhaps, akin to Zardos?
    *Z*

  2. #12
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    IMO, the alchemical fixation of the soul to the body, sulphur to salt, in humans
    is not really to the physical body or making it immortal.
    It's rather a fixation of consciousness - an ability to maintain awareness beyond
    the expiration of the physical body; to maintain a cohesive self-identity as an
    individual, but not necessarily as a personality.
    This is the practice outlined in Castaneda's works as well, that there is an alternate
    way of dying for warrior-sorcerers... that the Eagle will accept a surrogate, a
    thorough recapitulation, in place of one's awareness.
    To describe this in terms of physics, or metaphysics, I use the seven leveled system
    of consciousness which corresponds to the seven bands of the electromagnetic spectrum:
    hertzian, infrared, visible light, UV, x-ray, gamma, cosmic.
    To my understanding, your average human being in social consciousness is only
    existing in the lower three levels of consciousness. When one of these beings dies,
    they see "the light" and are magnetically drawn towards it. They are witnessing the
    level of visible light (the 7 colors together make white light), and that is as far as they
    can go, as far as they've evolved their awareness. Castaneda calls this being eaten
    by the Eagle. There's a quantum boundary existing beyond the light... that is, when
    coming "down" from cosmic, when energy/awareness hits the level of visible light,
    there is an additional layer of polarity, thus the "cross" that we must bear.

    I'm running out of steam... I guess there's too much context to give to make this
    comprehensible and i don't have the time to do it, and I'm not sure if there's any interest.
    But maybe you get the idea I'm trying to convey.

    To sum up, fixation of awareness in a human being who ingests the Philosophers'
    Stone gives that one continued awareness from one life to the next, or beyond
    the light... depending on where you would go.

  3. Quote Originally Posted by Zephyr View Post
    It is most interesting that the Hermetic Corpus (Asclepius especially) contains teachings that are almost identical to a sort of hybrid between Buddhist and proto-Christian ideas, namely that the "punishment" for not conducting the work of ascent to the One is to be trapped forever in transmigration. I do suspect there was quite a bit of cross fertilization between Ancient India at the time of the Buddha, and Greece at the time of Plato... They seem to be addressing many of the same issues.

    *Zephyr*
    Most definitely Zephyr!

    Have you by any chance read any Rene Guenon's work? He is one of the torch bearers of traditionalism-which believes that all religions stem from one primordial source. Anyway, I ask because he extensively deals with the similarities between Vedic and Neo-Platonic/Pythagorean Philosophy. You may find some value in his work, particularly "Symbols of Sacred Science".

    Quote Originally Posted by solomon levi
    IMO, the alchemical fixation of the soul to the body, sulphur to salt, in humans
    is not really to the physical body or making it immortal.
    It's rather a fixation of consciousness - an ability to maintain awareness beyond
    the expiration of the physical body; to maintain a cohesive self-identity as an
    individual, but not necessarily as a personality.
    I'm in agreement 100% here. Indeed, this not only describes the goal of spiritual alchemy but is precisely the doctrine held by all the Mystery schools of the ancient world. This process is also described metaphorically in Kabbalistic and Gnostic Philosophy through the act of "Bridal Chamber". The product of this operation is the solution of the body and the coagulation of the Spirit (from the fixation of the passive/lunar consciousness to the active/solar Soul) resulting in the “Body of Light”. Below I quote the Gnostic Gospel of Philip :

    The bridal chamber and the image must enter through the image into the truth: this is the restoration. Not only must those who produce the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, do so, but have produced them for you. If one does not acquire them, the name ("Christian") will also be taken from him. But one receives the unction of the [...] of the power of the cross. This power the apostles called "the right and the left." For this person is no longer a Christian but a Christ....
    Light and Darkness, life and death, right and left, are brothers of one another. They are inseparable. Because of this neither are the good good, nor evil evil, nor is life life, nor death death. For this reason each one will dissolve into its earliest origin. But those who are exalted above the world are indissoluble, eternal.
    This goes hand in hand with the Gospel of John where Christ says, “before Abraham was, I am”; centuries later St. Augustine adds to John 8, “weigh the words, and get a knowledge of the Mystery.” The idea being that Christ transcends space and time and is not trapped in the material universe and bound by the cyclic nature of life-death, Christ simply is. The Gnostics saw in the Biblical Jesus the archetype for the initiate who fixes his consciousness to the soul and become a Christ, "indissoluble,eternal".

    Below is another quote from my notes of the Latin alchemical text De Signature, which, I also believe alludes to this notion:

    “Paradise is still in this world, but man is very far from it, so long as he fails to regenerate himself. And this is the Gold hidden in Saturn.” (De signature, 8, 47,48)
    Last edited by Poimandres; 10-01-2009 at 11:55 PM.

  4. #14
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    I believe that physical immortality exists and I will work very hard to get it. Even if it takes all my short normal life, because I must to do it if I want to complete my aim, which is impossible to achieve in my life. I need at least few hundred years. There won't be a day when I'll say "Enough. I don't think that physical immortality exists" because after some years I won't gain immortality. I won't stop the searching all my life. There are only two ways:
    1. One day I will gain immortality.
    2. One day I will dead because I wouldn't have achieved it.

    Sorry for my poor English.

  5. #15
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    Cool

    The Taoist alchemists seem to strive after immortality... I believe it goes hand in hand with breatharianism, and apparently there are accounts where an old man sheds his skin like a snake and becomes young again. The technique that seems to support this path the most is "seed retention": having lots of sex but not ejaculating, and circulating the energy through the body... There seems to be "single-lifetime immortality" and "multiple lifetime immortality", which may be uncontrolled, like with the Samsara or it might be controlled, with retained memory like with the Bodhistattvas and Tzaddikim. I think the Rosicrucian hero known as the Compte de St Germain was reputed to be operating over a three or four hundred year span, showing up with no visible sign of aging many years after he was last seen and so on...

    Like V for vendetta maybe?

    *Z*

    It's probably safe to assume that a more metaphorical interpretation is the soundest. But hey! Weirdness happens...

  6. #16
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    If we discard certain organizations like monarchies, governments and corporations, we can say that the main attractive (utilitarianly speaking) of Alchemy is the possibility of the prolongation of life (immortality).
    It seems that human beings in general, we felt that our life time is too short. And is highly probable that we are right: Our time of biological life has been artificially shortened or due to chance causes throughout the time.
    Solomon levi introduced the subject of telomerases, and the readings indicate that researchers detected that the genes responsible for the telomer (anti-aging) are switched off. This should indicate to us perhaps that our desire of “immortality”, is the single expression of the yearning to recover something that we lost, or was snatched from us in some point throughout the history of human kind.
    There is an interesting exposition of Castaneda about a predator arrived at our world some thousands of years ago (in Spanish: “EL Volador” - The Flyer” -). He states that this predator feds on the human conscience, provoking tiredness, and making us die before time. And this being is the origin of our religions.
    Besides, is peculiar that texts as the Bible and others talk about human beings that were able to live hundreds on years in the antiquity, but the Gods arrived and somehow that was finished (no more Methuselahs).
    It is a little chilling, but perhaps we should value the possibility that our “Gods” are in fact the main predators of humanity.
    I remember the title of a book written by ex- Jesuit priest Salvador Freixedo. “Defendamonos de los Dioses” (Defend ourselves from the Gods).

    On the other hand, the concept of “immortality”, is relative. Concepts like that, cannot be conceived rationally (examples: “eternity”, “infinite”, etc.). So it is possible that when wishing immortality we are wishing in fact the standard time of biological life for which is designed our organism. dev indicate to that possibility (completely in agreement).
    Another aspect that is worth to value is that immortality seems to be a “desire”, and our desires are (generally) different from our necessities. In addition, sometimes, our desires are directly opposite to our real necessities.
    If we suppose that the Great Work is able to take us to a superior level of spiritual evolution, it is agreable to also suppose that our artificial desires (imposed culturally: Basically hedonism), should disappear too.

    Also I believe that we should delineate similar but different concepts, like transcendence versus immortality.
    And here we enter in muddy land: It is said that our soul (for example), is immortal per se. But for the Alchemist that is not sufficient. He looks for another form of immortality that includes the physical body necessarily. If not; his search should be more religious or mystical than Alchemical.

    It is supposed (Theosophy) that in the case of some avatars, the physical body “is absorbed” when the spirit has finished his labor here, so there is no corpse.
    In Christianity it is assumed that there is no corpse of Christ (except his prepuce circumcised -ha ha-), his physical body leaves the world along with his spirit (whatever it means). Also it is supposed that the famous Don Juan in Castaneda's, leaves this world turning its physical body into energy (there is no corpse either).
    In these cases the subyacent idea is that the physical body and the spirit are unified in a single energetic unit (dissolving duality). The only dismissable thing is the self, in terms of the social personality. And at the same time it is assumed that the self, is merely a set of ideas that we have about ourselves and they define us mentally only.
    The search of the Alchemist seems to be similar to these cases (unlike the mystic or the religious), the body is transformed by the Great Opus into a type of energy able to be united indissolubly to spirit.

    What you think?
    Just some reflections on immortality and life span.

    Best wishes
    Last edited by Andro; 01-30-2015 at 09:24 AM. Reason: Name correction.

  7. #17
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    For many, immortality is not physical, but it would be about the ability to keep his memory active forever. If the body dies, the person reincarnates into another body and still remember everything she ever did. However, that doesn't prevent the person from being able to be physically immortal, but immortal doesn't mean invicible so.. any immortal maybe one day coul die physically.

  8. #18
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    You are what you eat. Literally.
    Motabolism is fire. This fire is called oxidation.
    You it the dust. So you are dust.
    You eat combustibles and so you are.

    If the elixer of the philosophers is incombustible,and homogeneous with the body in the sense that the body will assimilate it,and it becomes the building blocks of the body. Then they will either never suffer catabolism,or it will take exceedingly long for them to be catabolized.
    as well they may actually suffer catabolism. But in doing so may release a.great amount of energy!

    Man dies for in catabolism and anabolism their is energy loss.
    It takes energy to break things down,and in breaking things down energy is gained,but little by little,their is more and more loss. The body just can't keep up with the demands of constant regeneration. The more permanent path may by internal transformation via the waters of the sexual system and the alkaline fire brought about via the breath. When truly done,you will see the red man in the mirror. And will know how it feels to be born of ruach,water,and fire. Oh the joy of feeling young again.

    I am certain of the water. I am certain of the ruach and the fire. But I am not certain if it is the alkaline fire of breath that brings about this whole event.

    The "possibly"more permanent path. Is the internal transformation described by the Taoist.Indie

  9. #19
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    I'm not sure whether I posted this before, but there was a study done at University of California where people who regularly meditated over a 3-months period had a more active telomerase, an enzyme that helps preserve telomeres. I find the impact of meditation very relevant to this subject matter. Overtime, I mean 15 to 20 years, maybe earlier, you're able to calm down the animal-driven physical vessel (with all it's programmings), and find a state of cellular, emotional, mental calmness that's very difficult to replace.

    This state is powered by deep abdominal breathing, I don't mean for few minutes during exercise but switching from breathing from the chest area to lower points, something like the way a newborn infant does.

    I don't believe one can achieve making of the Philosopher's Stone unless that person has very rare (among humanity) something we call 'strict dedication'. That's done daily.
    Introitus apertus ad occlusum Regis palatium / Labore et coeli favore / Nosce te ipsum

  10. #20
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    A man had all the materials to build a house. He knew what a house was. But had never built one. It took him 2 years to build the house. Working everyday.

    A man had the same opportunity as the Guy above. He knew how to build a house. It took him 3 month with minimul effort.

    "Right" knowledge. Gives success.
    Mastery is best defined by the word easy.
    all that is easy has been mastered, all that is mastered becomes easy.

    Meditation,or spiritual practise that is efficient dosnt take years to see mass results.

    The better ones knowledge,the quicker one can do something. Common logic.

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